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Post by cathynu on Feb 23, 2012 20:29:59 GMT -5
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Post by Kia on Feb 23, 2012 21:00:52 GMT -5
So pretty! I hope I get to see her at the Carolina Classic
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Post by su on Feb 23, 2012 21:38:13 GMT -5
Nice looking pup
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Post by cathynu on Feb 23, 2012 22:22:05 GMT -5
Thank you for your compliment about my girl, Kia, I think we are about 80% sure at this point that we will be going ..... Also thank you to Su for your kind words!!
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Post by prettyfeetsmom on Feb 24, 2012 0:46:38 GMT -5
Cathy that is one very pretty dobergirl  |
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Post by panama on Feb 24, 2012 7:18:42 GMT -5
VERY nice shots! Kudo's to your camera man, he was at the perfect level!
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Post by von Cosack on Feb 24, 2012 10:32:35 GMT -5
I like this puppy at ever stage of her life. My hopes are that she remains a quality Dobermann and doesn't faulter. Her pedigree has highs and lows just like everyone elses, my eyes are seeing the best right now. Good luck and keep the pics coming every 4 or 5 months. (a nice Euro shot of her sitting at a profile pose would be nice) Very nice! Von.
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Feb 24, 2012 10:44:02 GMT -5
She is suge a pretty girl and great pic's and a very nice stack |
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Post by trinitydobes on Feb 24, 2012 12:58:14 GMT -5
Its been a while since I have tried to "draw the lines" to show what I see when I look at a dobe and try and judge how they measure up when compared to the standard. I spoke with Cathy and she does not mind me giving it a go with Lily - I started to doing this to try and teach my eye to see the angles and the skeleton - drawing virtual lines in my head
The Head - the judge cathy is going to show to - is a head/neck guy the judging suggestions for our breed is that the head and neck are of equal lengths. The orange lines show the planes of the head - it appears that Lilly's skull plane has a tiny deviation - so the planes are close just a tad bit off. The sugested proportion of the blunt wedge is 50/50 skull to muzzle ratio is spot on to my eye.
The Head/Neck - I will admit to having an issue with ever finding a dog whose head length = the neck length and have not had anyone show me how this should be measured. What I did was use the orange bracket placing one point at the nose and the other point at the back of the skull - this is a very easiily identifiable measurement. I then copied that bracket so it would remain the same length - rotated it and placed on end at the point where the neck joins the shoulder, and you can see the other point is right at the top of the skull. hmmmmm I am not sure that is how the neck should be measured - I would have guessed to the base of the ear?? so Cathy she may be just exactly equal? or she could be judged to have a short neck (which is hard for me to believe)
To my eye there is a great flow from head > Neck> Shoulder with the neck being well set on - not too high, not too low and the neck tapers where it joins the shoulder to provide a broader base of support.
The Body - the yellow square is equal on all 4 sides and when placed over the body - you can see, even though her hind quarters are further from the camera than her front - her body in this photo is SQUARE. The measurement from the top of the whither to the point of the elbow should equal the measurement from the elbow to the ground - the horizontal line mid way of the square shows Lilly is spot on for these measurements.
The Shoulder - The pink lines show the front angulation. The scapula from the top of the whither to the point ofthe shoulder and the upper forearm from the point of the elbow to the point of the shoulder should form a 45 degree angle. In this photothe angle is a tine bit more than 45 degrees - this would be changed with a more foward presentation - but its pretty darn close. When you drop a plumb line (green) from the top of the whither tothe ground - it should fall right behind the elbow and right down the back leg - this is a good line to learn - because once you can draw this line in your minds eye - it is very easy to "see" what we mean by an overdone front - this plumb line will fall down the front of the leg. A perfectly balanced front will have each side of the triangle formed be of equal lengths - Lilly is still a baby and has not finished growing and developing so I would not expect to see this "equalzation" at this age - but you can see how close she is getting. Also Lily has exellent/strong pasterns.
The Rear - the pink lines again show the upper and lower angulation - both of these angles should be 45 degrees - to my eye the upper angle is spot on 45 degrees and teh lower angle is a bit more open - I would guess this will also change and improve with maturity - but I personally would rather see a bit more of an open angle than a closed one - less than 45 degrees is what we call "over-angulation" the pink line from the hock to the ground is perpendicular showing a strong hind leg.
The Body - Sometimes a dog can be SQUARE - but not really be balanced - shallow front and rear and long body. The Blue Brackets show that the length from whither to elbow - is almost exactly the same length from the green line to the point of the hip.
There is no perfect dog but at this age I think Lilly is very correct and from what I can see very close to the standard.
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Post by von Cosack on Feb 24, 2012 13:31:01 GMT -5
Two Standards remember, the point being the Euro dogs are allowed the 50d in the front as opposed to 45d in the akc adapted version. I prefer the akc shoulder because of its efficency the other differences aren't to extreme other than the akc allowing missing teeth, what a joke that is!! Von
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Post by panama on Feb 24, 2012 15:22:19 GMT -5
Cathy, your time and effort sure is paying off! She looks good! She looks like a completely different dog!
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Post by Kia on Feb 24, 2012 17:28:02 GMT -5
Who is she out of Cathy? She is a very nice girl!
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Post by cathynu on Feb 24, 2012 20:56:39 GMT -5
Dear Gail, I want to thank you most sincerely for being willing to have a look at Lilly and to draw the lines over my dog as well as give me a written explanation which has shown me how close to the Standard she is at this point. This has assisted me in understanding the Standard a LOT better than I ever have, because I now have a diagram which shows me how the dog I know so well compares to what is required - previously I have looked at diagrams, but because I couldn't really "see it", I struggled to visualise what I was looking at - so this has been a HUGE LEARNING EXPERIENCE for me THANK YOU SO VERY, VERY MUCH!! If I have read and looked at your info once, I have done it at least 10X this afternoon and this evening and Dave and I are also really pleased to know that our girl passes muster. Neither he or I are people who care about the "flavour of the moment" all we are really interested in is the fact that she is as close to that standard as possible, that her form and functionality haven't been changed and that she lives with us and Rex for as long as possible - we are definitely NOT looking for a 4yr old beauty - we' d far rather have that 13yr old piece of "shit"  Von, thank you so much for your input regarding my little girl - I always appreciate reading what you have to say about the Dobermann and the breed standard as well as the form and functionality - I have a question for you : What is the difference in performance of a dog with a 45deg shoulder opposed to a dog with shoulders set 5degs further forward?? I really appreciate listening to the voice of wisdom speaking - and yes we oftentimes don't like what we hear - but its better to hear the truth!! Pam thank you for the compliment on Dave's photo's - I told him and he was real pleased .... Hiehie, there is a huge diference between yesterday's photo's and that "deer caught in the headlights" the weekend we all met in Perry .... who kept showing her butt .... its amazing what a bit of experience does .... Thank you Lisa and Tina .... we are very partial to our little girl, and LOVE HER to distraction - Thanks for the compliment regarding her stack Tina .... we bought ourselves a set of "happy legs" and this has taught her VERY EFFICIENTLY to stay still and rock forward which gives you maximum results on what her front assembly looks like from the profile - you get them up on the stacking blocks and they have to stand still because the foot pedistals are just big enough for a Dobe foot - it also helps to stop hocking out - something I've had all kinds of trouble with Rex - and even he, who isn't that keen to get up on the blocks is definitely stacking a lot better - Lil on the other hand is getting to the point where she wonders into the stacking box and is even starting to put her front feet on the pedistals without either Dave or I having to put them up - we do however help her with the back feet .... Rex on the otherhand still needs a lot of coaxing to get him up on the blocks, but last night we had a breakthrough and the boy actually stood up on the blocks for 3 minutes - where previously he'd just keep doing the passive aggressive lean against whom ever was trying to get him up on the blocks!!  . Kia she is out of Leo Vom Markischenland and Dura Lex Polonia Copola. The breeders are out of Poland and their Kennel's registered name is Dura Lex Polonia (FCI) - Her litter came highly recommended - Gail did the pedigree/bloodline analysis and Diva Dennissov shared their link with me - and let me say this we are THRILLED to have her - she is an EXTREMELY WELL ADJUSTED pack member - there is little or no nervous energy - she settles down into whatever situation she is in quite easily and is THE MOST LOVING dog I think I've ever had ..... then again I'm new to Dobes - Prior to this I had Airedales and they are wired totally differently to Dobes .... However let me say this about the breeders - I would reccomend them to anyone wanting to buy a Dobe. These are people who are interested in the breed. If you go and look at their website which is extremely well documented, you will see that their bitches are NEVER bred more than once a year (they will also skip years as well), and only from age 3 - they let them have 4 litters and then the female is retired. Lilly is a member of the 2nd litter of Copola who will be 6 this year - Ms Bujok the breeder is also EXTREMELY careful and picky who she sells her pups to as well .... |
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Post by trinitydobes on Feb 24, 2012 23:32:31 GMT -5
Cathy,
I am so happy that this has been a help to you and increased your understanding of what to look for - as many know I bred show hunter conformation champions for 35 years - structure and understanding it was crucial to judge bloodstock. This education and eye for horse conformation was easily transferred to dobermans - both the show hunter and the doberman are performance athletes.
I have spent years drawing these lines on many a conformation show photo let me tell you - after a while it becomes second nature *LOL* Try it yourself on some copies out of the magazines or off the internet. Its great practice and there has been many times I would have bet the paycheck that dog was not square, and it actually was *LOL*
What I did not do was draw a straight edge on Lilly's topline - as it was very obvious to me that hers is flat, firm and falls with the proper 30 degree slope. have some fun and start laying a straight edge on the toplines of some of the new champions- especially some of the SA dogs and you will see some air between the back and the straight edge! this is what is called a soft topline - something you do not have to worry about.
I would be interested to find out - from a doberman judge -just how they measure the head an neck - from what point to what point - as this was just a guess on my part.
Something else I neglected to mention is her overall inpression is "smooth" the joining of her parts flows from one part to the other - no abrupt transitions - not sharp angled at any point - just one of those overall impressions. again - so very pleased it was a help to you
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Feb 26, 2012 12:07:37 GMT -5
And just on a side note, i'm glad she dosen't looks like her brother She has the right size and the right weight and i'm sure its not the last we heard about this beauty  |
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. Kia she is out of Leo Vom Markischenland and Dura Lex Polonia Copola. The breeders are out of Poland and their Kennel's registered name is Dura Lex Polonia (FCI) - Her litter came highly recommended - Gail did the pedigree/bloodline analysis and Diva Dennissov shared their link with me - and let me say this we are THRILLED to have her - she is an EXTREMELY WELL ADJUSTED pack member - there is little or no nervous energy - she settles down into whatever situation she is in quite easily and is THE MOST LOVING dog I think I've ever had ..... then again I'm new to Dobes - Prior to this I had Airedales and they are wired totally differently to Dobes .... However let me say this about the breeders - I would reccomend them to anyone wanting to buy a Dobe. These are people who are interested in the breed. If you go and look at their website which is extremely well documented, you will see that their bitches are NEVER bred more than once a year (they will also skip years as well), and only from age 3 - they let them have 4 litters and then the female is retired. Lilly is a member of the 2nd litter of Copola who will be 6 this year - Ms Bujok the breeder is also EXTREMELY careful and picky who she sells her pups to as well ....