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Post by von Cosack on Aug 13, 2011 12:25:50 GMT -5
The tests for the obvious short comings of the breed is now a world wide undertaking. However I believe theres more to the wellness exam than just the Physical side. The Mental side of the breeding pairs must be tested so that when instabilities in character are present the suggested breedings can be deleted. I have evaluated Dobermanns since 1965 and my findings show that from 1979 up till 2003 the character and stability of the breed has dwindled. I am not advocating a test that brings dogs to their limits in regards to their "fight" within. Rather a basic test to determine basic defense traits. I do not believe that all of the breed be a fight to the death character. However a certain about of defense tells everone that the dogs are not cowardest nor is there shyness shown.
The people who are now involved with the health tests should certainly welcome the tests to confirm that the temperaments of their dogs show stabilty and courage just as a Dobermann was originally bred to be.
A companion dog, protector, family member, activity member and all around great natured animal.
I'd enjoy speaking with the breeders here on this subject, pro and con .........although I can't imagine someone not wanting to confirm a breeding pairs mental ability and capacity. Right? Von
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Post by DeDe on Aug 14, 2011 17:17:35 GMT -5
Excellent post, Von!!! Thank you!
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Post by Nellie on Aug 14, 2011 18:26:18 GMT -5
I totally agree Von. This is why they have the ZTP in Germany. Here in the USA it is difficult to find an evaluator for character in the Dobermann. There are just not enough people knowledgeable enough in the breed that I would trust.
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Post by von Cosack on Aug 18, 2011 11:39:59 GMT -5
.........................................BUMP.................................! Von
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Post by trinitydobes on Aug 18, 2011 11:48:00 GMT -5
Von - if you were in charge (heaven forbid *LOL*) what would you envision as the test of suitable character? will you share with us what was involved when you were conducting these tests?
Do you see this test as something that could be given to every dog - no matter their level or area of training?
It think acknowledging, promoting and educating people on what proper doberman character should be should be a part of the goal for breeders and owners alike.
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Post by Shadowlands on Aug 18, 2011 11:58:05 GMT -5
Actually Gail, the conversation in Chat last night included touching upon this very thing. It was a very indepth conversation starting with NA vs Euro but we won't go there. Lol!  A lot of what you shared with us last night, Von, would be fantastic to have here on the open forum. Especially the "boogieman" with the pups.  |
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Post by von Cosack on Aug 18, 2011 12:01:21 GMT -5
I always have liked the ZTP, its a basic proceedure that has no traps and anyone can do it with the help of a few friends. You don't need it verified by an organization, you can video it to show your perspective puppy buyers. Or anyone who might have an interest in using your male for stud duty. If its documented by YOU the BREEDER isn't that as good as some organization doing the same? You can certify with signatures from onlookers as the validity of the video. That would work for me, I don't need an organizations approval at the same time a novice buyer can be impressed with the Breeders ZTP and/or the organizations results.
How bout you, ready to start testing for stability and courage?
Von
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Post by trinitydobes on Aug 18, 2011 12:10:16 GMT -5
sure would like to Von - I wished we lived closer so you could help me do just that very thing!
sorry I missed the conversation last nite cause I am sure it would have been very educational and great information for all to know
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Post by dreamvalley on Aug 18, 2011 13:18:36 GMT -5
"Rather a basic test to determine basic defense traits." Von my neighborehood is scared of my Dobermans already  They both are Euros with high defense/protective drive. Sometimes I wish they would be less driven... I was watching Utility competition on the weekend. There is some similarity to ZTP except of biting work. That's evident only dogs with stable nerves can do it.... but it's enough to get CH title in the show ring to breed a Doberman. Upsetting... |
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Post by damasyn on Aug 18, 2011 13:23:47 GMT -5
Sheesh ! I really wish we did that here in North America !
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Post by Nellie on Aug 18, 2011 13:26:33 GMT -5
Sheesh ! I really wish we did that here in North America !
Read about the ZTP here: thedobermannstation.com/index.cgi?board=sport&action=display&thread=48
Also, the UDC does something similar. I am sure that Suzan can tell us all about that one.
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Post by damasyn on Aug 18, 2011 13:27:57 GMT -5
Good to know, I just wish it was more of a requirement than an optional thing.
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Post by von Cosack on Aug 18, 2011 13:44:17 GMT -5
Kim I'm confussed, why do you want it to be a requirement? If its something you feel is important then a breeder should just do it. If an organization offers it and you can't take advantage of it because of geography just read up on how to do it. If you have a dog club that you belong to it would be a great program to take on and learn how to perform it. I don't see that it would be difficult to learn, especially with a dog club to help.
I did evaluations for a lot of breeders in the New England area and in New York down to Washington. It was my own exercises but its all the same when you consider a dogs stability and courage with canine sensibility. Its not ALL about the bite work when your working the dog your studing their eyes and body language and you can tell if the dog is taking on stress or if their just crusin and havin fun. You can google ZTP and one of the decent ones is ("Ramom Betelges" ZTP) as far as showing that its easy to set up. Von
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Post by damasyn on Aug 18, 2011 14:13:10 GMT -5
*sigh* lol what i am trying to say is, if maybe it were a requirement to do here like in European countries maybe we would have less BYB out there, i guess, *shrug* but.. who knows. Never mind.. lol forget i said anything
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Post by dreamvalley on Aug 18, 2011 17:05:46 GMT -5
You can google ZTP and one of the decent ones is ("Ramom Betelges" ZTP) as far as showing that its easy to set up. Von Gino's daddy and my boy has great personalities and he is a real Doberman |
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They both are Euros with high defense/protective drive. Sometimes I wish they would be less driven...