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Post by gemmasmomma on Oct 6, 2011 12:06:32 GMT -5
Lilly = 20 1/2 inches @ 19 weeks ...... Boy they are right on track with each other.... Lilly is bigger than Gemma was at this age! so you have a very big girl on your hands there Ms Thang! Gemma was a couple pounds behind Lilly... I think she was around the same height though as I recall... but Lilly is heavier! These puppies have really impressive bone! and their ear crops are really nice, not quite as long as Gemma's were so easier to get to stand! |
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Post by cathynu on Oct 6, 2011 13:52:15 GMT -5
Then again Diva, both Leo and Copola are right on the cusp of the breed spec .... so yes we can anticipate large dogs ..... although, to be honest with you, I am trying to keep Lilly to around a 10lb gain per month, which is about what they're supposed to gain from what I've read - she always seems to gain a lot in the beginning of each month and then pans out towards her birthdate .... I'm hoping she'll be around the 80lb mark, which is what I feel is a healthy weight for a dog of 26" - which is Copola's height ...... Rex who is just a bit over 28" at this point weighs 80lbs and he could dearly do with another 10, which is why my meat bill is as high as it is .... I'm desperately trying to get those 10lbs on him before his next show in Feb. next year ..... and hopefully it'll all go straight into his chest!!
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Post by von Cosack on Oct 6, 2011 16:13:44 GMT -5
The puppy is from a repeat breeding that gave you the brown bitch??? Von
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Post by gemmasmomma on Oct 6, 2011 21:04:57 GMT -5
Then again Diva, both Leo and Copola are right on the cusp of the breed spec .... so yes we can anticipate large dogs ..... although, to be honest with you, I am trying to keep Lilly to around a 10lb gain per month, which is about what they're supposed to gain from what I've read - she always seems to gain a lot in the beginning of each month and then pans out towards her birthdate .... I'm hoping she'll be around the 80lb mark, which is what I feel is a healthy weight for a dog of 26" - which is Copola's height ...... Rex who is just a bit over 28" at this point weighs 80lbs and he could dearly do with another 10, which is why my meat bill is as high as it is .... I'm desperately trying to get those 10lbs on him before his next show in Feb. next year ..... and hopefully it'll all go straight into his chest!! most of the weight is contingent upon the bone, skeletal frame and size. So she could be a very thin 80lbs or a very heavy 80's.. if she is a thin 80 lbs its because she has heavier bone and can weigh more, but not look heavy. She will be over 80's... to be assured. She will easily be 85 lbs or a few pounds more and still be lean. her bone is heavier ... heavier bone is what made my neapolitan mastiff's 155 lb-165 lbs at 28" tall... His legs were like a mountain lion.. his paws too, so although Neo's are not that tall, they have super heavy droopy skin and MASSIVE bone... These Dobermans we have, have very heavy bone! and will weigh more and look leaner at a heavier weight. |
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Post by cathynu on Oct 7, 2011 7:59:54 GMT -5
Yes they certainly DO HAVE a heavy bone set ..... I mean .... her feet are bigger than Rex's who is full grown .... She is SUCH A CUTIE .... and so laid back .... TG for that ... because Rex like your Gemma doesn't have a shut off button .... he's like the proverbial duracel battery operated mouse .... just bigger .....  |
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Post by von Cosack on Oct 7, 2011 10:56:16 GMT -5
I like to see a pic if possible of the dogs in question. I'm also very aware of bone density and structure. I'm also aware of what the Standard calls for and in the past years everyones so concerned with the lack of bone density that some have forgotten that you can also have to much thickness. The correct density has everything to do with agility and the dogs running speed that lends to power. Balance has always been very important to a Dobermanns look and health however balance means nothing if the dogs skeletal package is to thin or to thick even if balance is maintained. The more bone density thats present normally means more size is needed simply to avoid "short" bones. A normal bone length at the foreleg that attains above average bone thickness is not a great look or a healthy structure either. Theres plenty of breeds with substantial bone but the Dobermann is not one of them. I enjoy all the Mastiffs off breeds and have trained and owned Rotties, these breeds are heavy boned with large carriages so the bone is needed to carry weights from 105 to 185lbs. A top weight for a 28" to the withers Dobermann male can be 95lbs but once your over that height and weight your not in allignment with the breeds Standard. I see plenty of American show dogs that lack under jaw and have poor heads and temperament. On the other side of the water their dogs from show lines can have short muzzles and blocky heads along with short heavy boned legs with heavy bodies with no tuck up underneath. Also so many dogs that are cow hocked.
The problems stem from the breeders not keeping the Standard in mind when when considering dogs in their programs. I hope if these dogs exceed the Standard blue print you won't incorperiate them into a breeding program. I say this because theres so many breeders to be and breeders with experience that refuse to accept the importance of the breeds blue print.
I'll also throw in the health issue of a heart thats sized and approved to maintain a certain weight and performance and when this "motor" is overwhelmed by an outer shell thats above the motors capability there is an appearant breakdown in the future.
I took advantage of the thread to express my feelings on the "oversized" dogs so to the OP I apologize. This has been a real problem within our breed for many many years. The "Warlock" "Giant" "Powerhouse" type discriptions of a "mid-sized" "compact" dog have caused so many problems from the surge in "BYBing" with the old BS that "bigger is better"!!!
Didn't mean to side track the thread...............sorry!!! Von
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Post by 4Dobies on Oct 7, 2011 11:28:35 GMT -5
Ranger 14 weeks 32.5 lbs.
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Post by cathynu on Oct 7, 2011 11:55:12 GMT -5
Hello Von, and no I really don't mind you answering to this thread, because I truly appreciate knowlegeable people of our breed's input, as I am a total novice, and enjoy and prefer learning from people like yourself, and all the other esteemed Dobe people on this website ..... from whom I have learned a lot. Before I decided to buy Lillly I did a fair amount of reading about our breed, and also spoke to many people, and then when the opportunity for a Leo pup availed itself I was sure to ask the breeders numerous questions about the size and body mass of the parents, and according to them the Dam (Dura Lex Polonia - Copola) is 26" tall and weighs 85Lbs. the Sire, (Leo Vom Markischen Land) is 28" and weighs 95Lbs, which is within the breed spec .... but on the high end of the breed spec, which means I am still able to put my dog in the conformation ring which is the main reason I purchased her, as this is the dog sport that interests me. Character traits I can tell you about Lilly is as follows: She is VERY toy and food driven, is a very determined little girl, but also determined to please, and is way more laid back than my male dobe who at 21 months doesn't have an "off button" - having said that though, she is extremely eager to please, retrieves the frisbee for my husband, and would do it all day long for him if he didn't call a halt to the game, as she runs tirelessly. While we were on a weeks vacation our 2 boarded with Rex's breeder in south Georgia, and she called my girl and "the athlete". She used her to exercise the 2 puppy litters she had - who incidently were only a week younger than Lilly ... she'd first "exercise" the dane puppy of 5 months old, and then she'd be shuffled between the other 2 litters, and this apparently happened every day. She works her conformation stuff like a little champ. At this point she still has difficulties lining up in a group with a lot of other dogs ... but then considering she has only been out in the "ring" situation 2x, I think she's rather amazing - and she did win my breed last Saturday and did me a 2nd in group in a B Match. I will be putting her in another B match this weekend and am interested to see if she'll do better in the ring with many others, as we attended a Handlers class this past Wed .... although I do believe this is going to take a bit of time to grow accustomed to .... if Rex is anything to go by ... this is only my 2nd dog to train for the conformation ring.
Regarding her build. She is certainly heavier set than what Rex is (and I will put up photo's of both of mine as soon as I can get my "slacker" hubby to get her AKC photo's taken - Rex is 28" tall and weighs 80lbs but could dearly weigh at least 10lbs heavier, and which I am presently trying to do. Her feet are bigger than Rex's (but not by much) and her legs are certainly heavier looking than his.
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Post by gemmasmomma on Oct 7, 2011 23:06:36 GMT -5
Von: our puppies are out of Leo Vom Markischen Land who is a Schutzhund III, IPO III stud, who is 8 years old and took high in trail last october in a Sch III test again... the dam is also a Sch titled dog in Poland and Leo is in Europe.... I am not sure where. These are top working lines and Leo is 100+ lbs and he is absolutely lean machine at 8 years of age. These puppies are well researched pedigree and we did our homework. I am not worried about their size being over anything. The bone is dense and the size is heavy and they are heavy because of it... Bone weighs more than flesh... Plenty of photos of these puppies are out here in The puppy segment of the forum. I appreciate your concern as most people who talk about size are boasting about oversize. I am not boasting and I am not bragging, I am stating the obvious... My impression with a puppy I purchased from such a tremendously promising and impressive pedigree and I have much experience with Doberman's, Rotties and Neapolitan Mastiffs, in work, show and family members. I am really fabulously impressed with this puppies as I am impressed with my bitch from Pride of Russia who is already a Champion in UKC and IABCA and working on her BH and her 'WAC".... she is 20 months and Saava is will be 5 months in 10 days.... so will Ms Lil, his sister from same litter... Cathy and I imported these guys at the same time from the same breeder and litter... I directed her to this litter and Gail and I did the research on the pedigree and we are really happy with how it looks! The photo is of the Sire.... he is impressive and he throws better than himself every time! Attachments:
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Post by gemmasmomma on Oct 7, 2011 23:09:25 GMT -5
Saava loves the water like is Papa does!! he is a water boy! here is he is at 11 weeks when we got him! He was 32 lbs... here... Attachments:
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Post by 4Dobies on Oct 8, 2011 13:57:43 GMT -5
Ranger at 14 weeks, starting to lose that puppy look.  |
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Post by cathynu on Oct 8, 2011 15:25:49 GMT -5
Here are the official photo's Dave took this morning for Lilly's AKC registration. She is 19 weeks old, weighs 47lbs and is 20 1/2" at the withers:  |
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Post by cathynu on Oct 8, 2011 15:29:48 GMT -5
And the full frontal :  |
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Oct 8, 2011 18:24:36 GMT -5
Both are looking great, but why you need pic's for register Lilly  Thats a first one i hear |
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Post by 4Dobies on Oct 8, 2011 19:56:02 GMT -5
Both are looking great, but why you need pic's for register Lilly Thats a first one i hear The only reason as far as I know that you should need a picture for the AKC is if you are getting a PAL (Purebred Alternate Listing) The PAL is limited to Obedience trials. We did that with Dex since he is a rescue and we want to trial him in AKC Rally. |
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Thats a first one i hear
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