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Post by gemmasmomma on Jan 17, 2012 0:19:50 GMT -5
youtu.be/806j18u4S_gGreat video about a ethical, responsible, educated, knowledgable NATURAL rearing breeder! what can we learn from this?
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Post by gemmasmomma on Jan 18, 2012 14:59:36 GMT -5
Does anyone have any comments at all about this video? If not I am amazed that no one thought that this breeder was incredible, amazing and doing everything right for his dogs and has had a 17 year old GIANT breed to his credentials!
I am amazed that no one said how freakin incredible it is to see a BREEDER do EVERYTTHING right with regards:
1. does pedigree research and waits for maturity in his dogs
2. feeds them a raw diet,
3. does chiropractic adjustments,
4. screens potential buyers
5. No vaccinations in 30 YEARS... successfully
6. health tests ALL of his dogs for everything BEFORE breeding and last but not least
spares NO expense to breed the best, healthiest puppies possible!
IF ONLY EVERY breeder had the same ethics we would have NO HEALTH problems in purebreed dogs! this guy is my hero!!
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Post by dobs4ever on Jan 18, 2012 16:33:14 GMT -5
I watched it twice - He has had newfies for 20years one lived to 17 years of age - has a 4 year old daughter out of her which means she was bred when she was 13 years old. Who the heck breeds a 13 year old dog?
Louis the sire of the litter had skin issues and cardio but the diet cured all so they bred him. It appears he only lived to 11.
They have a litter every 6 years so at most they have had 3 litters - not sure they can even consider themselves a breeder at that rate.
Never mentioned if they showed or tested temperament for standard desire to work to save a drowning person. In Dobermans that would never fly.
They mentioned 3 things that contribute to good health -
1. Nutrition - Breed specific appropriate diet - What the heck is that and who decided??? I do believe we need to give proper nutrition just not convinced it is RAW only.
2. Chiropractic adjustments which I strongly believe in and do with my guys
3. immune system - He did say vaccines where safer than the disease and only gets those required by law. But he did not say DON"T ever vaccinate - he just does not but it appears he has not had that many dogs -
Based on his numbers many could meet that critieria.
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Post by von Cosack on Jan 18, 2012 16:38:00 GMT -5
I know theres more than a few on this forum who are familar with Dr. Beckers videos. She does a great job offering information and opinions on medical approaches. (She needs a hair stylists REALLY badely) but shes a cutie!
As to Newfs living to be 17 thats very good especially for him living with a vet he probably had a good life. Longevity wasn't an issue years ago in most breeds, Dobermanns lived to be 12 to 14 regularlly. Ofcourse dogs that grew to be so popular in the late 60s thru the 70s were afflicted by their popularilty. Lots of BYBers breeding oversized dogs for the ignorant American puplic who thought and still today think oversizing is an advantage. To bad their hearts didn't grow to match the added weight!
As to the natural way theres dogs that can thrive on that approach and others that struggle. Its helpfull to begin a program and stick with one approach when theres success.
One strange comment was that he breeds his bithes twice? With 6 years in between, that seems very off to me especially if your waiting till 2 yrs to breed then again at 8? Not wise to breed at 8 the percentages of a litter with good numbers gets low and I think a giant breed at 8 is extreme. I'm sure theres exceptions but it can't be a regular practice its something to consider.
Health testing can get abit over rated when you've used a line for 30+ years. If you don't know your line by then I guess your not p[aying attention hahahaha!!! Good luck to the breedings and I like to hear about breeders who care.
Did you know we have Dobermann breeders right here on the forum that breed off of Mr. Palmers Dobermanns who are considered the healthiest Dobermann lines today? Imagine people who strive to breed Dobermanns from the healthiest lines. I know something about those lines my Uncle (von Cosack Dobermann) bred from the lines that Mr. Palmer bred from. My Uncle started his in 1937 Mr. Palmer jumped in around the late 50s. I know a little about him when I was ready for my first pup to own (16yrs) my Uncle bought me one. I liked the brown dogs and Uncle was breeding 90% black so he got me a pup from Germany guess who from? Its time for you to acknowledge that theres members here that could help you, alot! Dobermanns aren't Newfys or Mastiffs I owned Danes for many years along with Dobermanns but I rarely compare or mention a size analogy.
As for hero's most of the few I've had are my Dogs. The best sourse for furthering your education about Dobermanns is to pay attention to them, close attention to understand "why" they do the things they do. Hows your lil Boy? Von.
oh yeah just tested Pudg for alergies seems hes most allergic to "Chicken" imagine the most widely used raw ingrediant. I fed raw before it was the topic it is today and just like anything else some can thrive on it and some do not. Their ALL different.
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Post by gemmasmomma on Jan 18, 2012 22:37:59 GMT -5
comments! wow... hooray! I knew that there were some folks out here who actually read stuff that was pertinent to the breed!
Suzan: This breeder has MANY Newfies... not just one... if you missed that it was stated at the beginning... The bitch in the video had a Dam who lived to be 17... one of many of his dogs who lived well beyond the norm for giant's at 7-10 years. So he has many litters in his 30 years and many litters to raise without vaccines beyond the 'rabies' shots. Dr. Becker is completely against vaccinations (another video I posted talked about that) and she brought this breeder on in support of her personal and professional beliefs of "Natural Rearing Breeders Association" ( I am a member) who advocate NO vaccines other than Rabies if it is required by law in your state (there are medical exemptions in some states) and therefore some people can opt out of those as well and many do.
I loved the commitment to the whole picture for breeding and the approach to well researched pedigree's for health and not simply titles/ conformation or otherwise, but for beauty, longevity and health... raw diet and no vaccines being the cornerstone of what Dr. Becker herself believes and finds others who like herself advocate this to everyone, incuding breeders....
Hence the video, a 3 decade successful breeder of Newfie's a Giant breed and a breed whose congenital issues parallel the Doberman namely Cardiac issues and Cancer...
Breeding anything requires an understanding of the basic genetic principles of genetic diversity as the key to optimal health and nutrition and over all wellness approach and his commitment to Chiropractic care for Dogs is just so cool!
The Natural Rearing Breeders Association has hundreds of breeders who are committed to these same principles and it could be a great lesson to the BIg Name Dobermann breeders today who in my view for the majority of them have completely lost sight of what it means to be a responsible, dedicated to the breed breeder. The health of our breed is deplorable and worsening!
I loved what this guy had to say! He is awesome!
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Post by gemmasmomma on Jan 18, 2012 22:55:25 GMT -5
Von: My boy dog is just marvelous in every way, thanx for asking....
There is are a couple things I am certain of... the older I get I realize that It’s true – the more I learn, the more I wonder how much I really know.
but I have also learned that the older I get, the more I am aware that some people are just "not worth" listening too, regardless of how much they know...
If I need the 'wisdom/knowledge" the universe will provide the wisdom through someone whom I can "respect" and therefore can actually 'learn' from... its just how it works!
At least that is the truth in my personal experience.
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Jan 19, 2012 10:11:58 GMT -5
I just hope they never see a puppie die on parvo, that might change their mind about no vaccines  |
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Post by von Cosack on Jan 19, 2012 11:24:53 GMT -5
Good luck with your travels through your universe hope you find what your looking for. If you post pics of your dogs on any forum that has Dobermann folks with experience in showing breeding and the Standard I'll venture to say no one will say their excellant examples and should be bred. Then hopefully one of them will be from your universe, you know the make believe one where everyone agrees with you!!! You see I care about ALL dogs and have a special association with Dobermanns, I care for them and their past and future if your gonna be apart of the future then I'm trying to educate you too. Beyond that I could care less for your self serving attitude and its obvious that you could care less about opinions from much more accomplished breeders than you. You've been told by many your bitch is a pet quality or less yet you still persist to breed her. Just another BYBer!!! Von
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Post by gemmasmomma on Jan 19, 2012 11:42:46 GMT -5
Von: you are just one more voice in the dog park forum world.
Your views are just like everyone elses'... they areyours...
they mean what they mean to you, but not to anyone else. I am certain in your world that you find those who agree with you as well! and that is why you choose the places you go to find those who agree with you.
Good for you!
You are one of those voices that I have learned to ignore. If that bothers you... such is life!
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Post by gemmasmomma on Jan 19, 2012 11:50:33 GMT -5
Tina: that breeder and others who choose not to vaccinate because of what they know about Vaccinations may or may not ever suffer the loss of parvo puppies. This breeder has not lost any to Parvo and I have heard this from many of the breeders who are also 'Natural Rearing Breeders"... there is an association of them and I am now a member of that association. It was formed by several Veterinarian's like Dr. Bergin who are also firm believers in NO vaccinations. Dr. Becker the veterinarian who interviewed Dr. Bergin, is also a believer in NO vaccinations. It is not a small community of people/breeders. It is quite a large contingency. The more research I do into it, the more I see it cropping up all over. It is also a large contingency of humans who do not vaccinate their children either for the same reasons. The same reasons I would NEVER get a flu shot (vaccination)... It a belief that has been around since the advent of Vaccinations. The argument against them has been going around for decades and its growing in acceptance and acknowledgment on a grand scale. The controversial nature of it will probably last for decades more.... but the fact is that a breeder can lose a puppy or two and or more... but vaccinated puppies also die of Parvo, because they had no immune response and they would not have survived regardless because their immune system had no ability to respond to mount an immune response.
This is why the argument is so controversial. Immune response is not guaranteed because a 'Vaccination"...
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Post by von Cosack on Jan 19, 2012 12:26:46 GMT -5
You seem to think that theres opinions that will vary when evaluating a dog. There IS when the dog passes when they are sound in the most difficult areas that each breed possesses. If you knew how to evaluate a Dobermann you would understand why people have suggested that you spay your bitch. But you don't see that shes pet quality theres NO opinions to consider the dog is right in front of you!!!
My views have 50 years of experience your views has 50 minutes. I can see your bitches lack of quality you can't! Yet its right in front of you, read the Standard gain some knowledge to be able to "judge" a dog by the breeds blueprint not from the dinner table.
Ignoring me just adds to the fact that you can't handle any comments that suggest that your wrong.
Look at your dogs and have the Standard in your hand, start at the head and work your way down. Its not hard it takes time to learn but since your such a universal figure it should take you 6 years what took me 30 but thats the difference between people like you and me. I put the time and effort in, I was taught by the best trainers, handlers and breeders of that era then. You were taught by...........................the Universe!!! feel bad for your dogs your an obnoxious novice in Dobermanns who thinks you know it all but the facts remain. Your pics are on the net to be seen by all and the people with experience say spay her!!! But the Universal Madam of Blindness can't listen, learn and admitt when your over your head. You have all the gile of a BYBer you know everything but in reality know nothing. As for people who agree, who agrees with you? Tell us. Von
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Post by aruiz0322 on Jan 19, 2012 13:08:27 GMT -5
Von, I just want to say to you that I look forward to your vast amount of knowledge and experience. When I get my pup I am sure that I will be asking lot's of questions and I hope that you would be so kind as to share your experiences with me because after all that is why I joined this forum. I know that I am new to the breed and I will depend on one my own reading and research but also others experience so thanks for being awesome.  Amy |
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Post by damasyn on Jan 19, 2012 13:25:21 GMT -5
whew ! Well, hmmmm who am I??? A nobody in the dog park forum, but didnt we just have a thread about breeders or people who cant see their own faults? Kennel blindness??
"""6. health tests ALL of his dogs for everything BEFORE breeding and last but not least
spares NO expense to breed the best, healthiest puppies possible!
IF ONLY EVERY breeder had the same ethics we would have NO HEALTH problems in purebreed dogs! this guy is my hero!! """
Sounds also like Gemma that more than one educated Doberman/breeder person has said.. " Dont breed your dogs, they are far from breeding quality"
Like I said, I am a no body, but I do know what I like in my dogs and just because you have great health testing doesnt mean your dogs are great to breed either.
You need to open your mind and listen to ALL FEEDBACK. Now, me personally, after looking at your dogs, yes their cute, all dogs are. But would I breed them??? Hell no !!! emphatically NO. Could I tell you in terms you wanted to hear or understand? Probably not, and not that my opinion would matter. Sounds like more than one person has given you this opinion and yet a bit of kennel blindness is there.
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Post by damasyn on Jan 19, 2012 13:38:37 GMT -5
I think its great that your trying to educate yourself before taking the plunge, but you apparently have had many people telling you, Dont breed your dogs and yet you seem to be looking for just one person to say, OH YEAH breed them. Instead of listening to everyone, your only listening to what you WANT to hear. Maybe you should find out WHY and analyze the reasons for people saying DONT DO IT.
But the way its looking now is, your discounting everyones "bad" opinion by saying...your just one or dont know what your talking about..and your going to breed anyway. So if your determined to breed reguardless, why ask anyway??? If you dont like what you hear, you dont listen at all.
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Post by su on Jan 20, 2012 0:33:35 GMT -5
Wow, as an uninformed ignorant dog owner I had dobermans that lived to 16, 14, 13 and am hoping to continue what must be a pure accidental lucky streak as I was stupid enough to vaccinate the ones I had as puppies and feed them...omg... dog food. Glad the universe was kind enough to allow this ignoramous to own a few dogs that lived a good, happy and healthy long life. Can I be your hero too?
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