C O D's

[trouble]

As some of you might know - heavy discussions are ongoing in regard to "correct" COD of various dogs ....
So, why not have a similar discussion here ? ...
Personally I am SO fed up with all the LAME excuses "some" people are coming up with - as IF the breed in any way will benefit from this total blindness of the very same people.
From what I have been reading for the last couble of days, it OK to die and prematurly of ANYTHING but DCM / heart disease / heart attack / heart related problem - I truly do not get it ...
One of the more recent excuse has been, that a certain dog died due to being poisoned just after a show, and strangely enough, 2 other dogs, belonging to the very same person, and on the very same day, also died due to being poisoned .... sorry, but statements like this, is an insult to the interlect of the people who read these entries.
Yes - we do need accurate information, if any information should be able to help the breed in the future, but there's no reason what so ever to keep trying to "hide" the truth, as it will eventually be revealed. The lineage of some dogs, gives clear evidence of, that the lifespan within these lines, are far lower than within other lines - that alone gives cause to RUN away from lines like these.
Yes - the breed has a heart disease problem - but IF anyone should be able to help solve such a problem, the information must be revealed, as that alone will be to the benefit of the breed ...
Recent event - like the death of Fedor del Nasi - This male has according to information, produced more than 400 litters - and today, this male at the age of 9 years is even a great grand sire in some combination. He is merely one of many males, which have been used excessively. From the date of his untimely demise, and to the actual announcement, approx 1 week went by - this is toally understandable, still no information in regard to the COD of this male. Politically, I can understand why - Financially, I can understand why ... start calculating, and you'll possible come to the same conclusions as I have ....
Sorry - if this entry is harsh - No offence has been intended, but as a lot of people have started to say "Enough is Enough" ...

[trinitydobes]

Bitten,

I could not agree with you more - there is no justification for everyone using every excuse under the sun to ignore the 800 lb gorilla in the room - Fedor's cause of death. Yes we all know that his owner and his son must be mourning the passing of their family dog - but to come out or mourning long enougth to announce his death - but remain silent on the COD cannot be acceptible. Any statement would have been better than silence - like an official necropsy is being done and an official COD will be announced when we have the report. Or he was hit by a car any thing would have been better than the silence.

There is no excuse to not provide some statement - this was not just a family companion. This was the most used, prolific stud dog of the last decade - when you have a dog that is probably in 50%, 60% or even possibly 75%? of the pedigees in the world today the owner of that dog has a responsiblity to provide a COD.

I just went through hell this past week, fending of several assaults by Betelges owner and one of his supporters because I dared to post, when asked about the health of Betelges blood lines the last 2 years that I personally knew of 3 puppies that had died of DCM that had Betelges bloodlines. I was accused of being a liar, crazy, and ignornant. Slobodan flat out lied about breeding Von Cosacks puppy that died at 13 wks. He flat out lied about the Obi sired puppy whelped by Family dobes that died right after Thanksgiving at only 8 months old! This puppy had liver issues as well but it was ultimately DCM that caused his death. From this same litter there were several health issues with pups i.e. blindness reported by my friend here in VA.

We know for sure about Von Cosacks pup and my friend Ralph's pup because both of those pups had a necropsy performed to identify COD. There was also Gonzalo Gonzalez that reported on FB about the loss of his puppy to DCM - all those posts have now been removed and I understand why- Slobodan tried to threaten me, shame me and bully me into saying I was lieing about his bloodlines.

This breeder has no honor - and the one good thing that came out of it was he actually posted how he really feels about breeding these DCM ticking time bombs - QUOTE: "I would rather have a beautiful dog live for 4 years than have an ugly piece of shit dog like yours, live to 15"

With attitudes like this and the many who posted asking why everyone was making a ruckus because Fedor living to 9 was a good long life - we will never return to the health and longevity this breed enjoyed 20 years ago.

I hope and pray that anyone who has their doberman die of a sudden death please do a necropsy - and then report the confirmed COD status - it may not be important to the big time kennels and breeders but it is very important to those of us studying the bloodlines and trying to avoid the highest risk dogs when making breeding decisions.

[trouble]

Well, Gail ... welcome to my world - this is what I go through each and every day. This unbeliveable denile, the threats the owners get from their breeders, and if you dare to ask into how or why, you will be mocked and bullied.
I took the liberty to ask into the discussion about "Boris" - now the thred has been totally removed, and I merley asked, if all 3 dogs had been autopsed with confirmation on poisioning being COD ... but HEY - that tells more about the persons behind the facebook, than those that made entries and asked sensitive questions ...
Autopsy / necropsy is fairly expencieve - still when we lost our Idun last year, we did it, and we announced the cause of her death at the same time and on the very day, we had to put her down ... What did it bring us, merely a lot of problems, name calling and critism, not only in regard to this dog, but in regard to our breedings as such. Sometimes, being honest and truthfull, gives you more problems, that the opporsite ...
When a dog dies, the autopsy/nectrosy must be made asap = in the case of Fedor del Nasi, none will ever be revealed - just trying to be realistic.
In regard to your statement about "Betelges" - it's merely overall normal behaviour in those circles - sad ... When being confronted in public, as you did, it's not as much what you said, it's far more the threat against their livelihood that concerns these people. € 1000,- per breeding - having bred in 8 years, more than 400 litters - says far more than anything else ... Unfortunately, this is how things are conducted - and going through the few litters the database has, I can tell you, that Gino Gomez has studded far more than Fedor ... Not too bad to have a political correct good looking dog, so fuck the lifespan of the breed ...
Well - rambling along here, and with the moode I am in, I better stop now ...

[su]

I am sorry to say that both of you are right, for SOME it will come down to their bottom line rather than what is good/best for the breed they claim to love. Why tell now, they got what they wanted, what else matters? Obvisiously calling them out on it just gets them to show words that are understood in any language, as people say, "the best offense is a good defense" and they have it down pat. Sorry for what you both went/are going through just to try to improve this wonderful breed, please know your efforts are appreciated by so many of us that treasure our days with them but would rather count the years.

[trinitydobes]

please know your efforts are appreciated by so many of us that treasure our days with them but would rather count the years.

Su this is one of the loveliest sentiments I've ever read - and so very true! thank you

[cathynu]

"QUOTE: "I would rather have a beautiful dog live for 4 years than have an ugly piece of shit dog like yours, live to 15"

This has to be the most heartless, thoughtless and selfish but also idiotic statement I've ever heard come from someone who calls himself a reputable breeder!! So glad I chose not to support him, and WILL NEVER refer anybody asking about Dobes to his website!!!

Its breeders like him who hurt the breed!!!

[su]

I would have to agree Cathy, but we have to consider the source,once an idiot always an idiot and in case we don't believe it he will prove it by posting.

[cathynu]

Very true Su!!