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Post by damasyn on Nov 13, 2011 21:21:42 GMT -5
Good luck ! ahhhh I think I almost fell a little bit in love with Von on that last post hehe make my heart go pitter pat  gotta like that aggressive man  You could always go and see how Ninette reacts. Judgement call for sure. When in doubt...dont. Leave her at home and go alone or I am sure there will be other parties. Or you can just jump in with both feet and see how she fares. |
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Post by DeDe on Nov 14, 2011 6:48:17 GMT -5
I've read this thread several times to try to decipher exactly what I 'hear and see' going on with Ninette and agree with several of the suggestions already listed.
We NEVER allow animal aggression unprovoked for ANY reason!!! Dogs, cats, horses, birds, etc.
Now, if one of those animals is the aggressor, then that's another story all together.
However, I can't be totally sure if Ninette is being 'dog aggressive' or 'posessive' of you while on the leash. Regardless of her reason for the defensive barking at the other dogs, it MUST be stopped.
Quick case in point: I arrived at Gail's house with Demi. I was there to drop off Demi for a few months while taking her Lestat home with me for some training and trialing during our winter months. Gail had already had a bit of a 'possessive' attitude problem with Lestat before my arrival. When I got there, we had Lestat in his wire crate in the living room. Nellie and I came in and socialized for a little while. We then walked outside and got Demi out of the van, leaving Lestat inside for now. Demi and Gail socialized for a while outside and Gail had control of the leash. We then went back inside, keeping Demi on the leash. She, being on new ground, was very neutral to the environment. After a bit, I got Lestat out of his crate, on leash, to correct what I knew was going to happen. Sure enough, he was initially fine because it was me on the end of his leash and not his mom, but, first chance he had, he reached out and snapped at Demi because SHE was near Gail. Immediately I snatched his front feet off the ground, YELLED NO in his face, held him aloft for a moment till the shock registered, then calmly replaced his front feet back on the ground. When he then looked at me, I told him he was a good boy and praised him. Next time he looked at Demi and dropped his ears, we repeated this BEFORE he could growl or snap. That was the last time he's needed ANY correction for dog aggressive behavior and I've had him loose with several of our dogs now.
Lestat is over 18 months old and 'thinks' he's a man. This just shows that one good correction can make all the difference. Now, when we go to the local AKC/UKC club with MANY other dogs, I never have to worry that he will get out of turn with any of them. He knows to refocus on me for his rewards. :-)
As for Cathy, with the behavior being one out of fear, my solution would be to overwhelm her senses to the point that she eventually just becomes numb. I would do this using a local club instead of a dog park. Clubs tend to have a bit more obedience and control on their dogs than the average person does. A much safer environment to train in IMO. When you take a somewhat fearful dog like this into a club environment with so many other dogs that just basically ignore them, they quickly learn that there are just too many to fight them all off and the other dogs really don't seem to care about her one way or the other, so, why bother... Mom is always more interesting with the treats/rewards than all these other dogs anyway! :-)
Just some personal observations and additional ideas. Good luck to the both of you!
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Post by trinitydobes on Nov 14, 2011 20:56:37 GMT -5
Thank you dede for explaining the issue with Lestat - and I totally agree that I would much rather give one swift correction that gets the job done than several small or lessor corrections that don't get the job done!
Day - please keep us posted on how things go and what gets results for you.
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Post by daynieto on Nov 21, 2011 16:29:43 GMT -5
Day, Sounds like your little girl is a mixed bag - and its going to take some observation to come to the right conclusion - is she being dominant pushy - or is she lacking in confidence and fearful - perhaps a mix of the two? Keep us posted - you have lots of experience her to help figure out what is going on with ms ninette chantel! I think she is a mix of the two , she played with the bichon frise the other day in the fenced area here in the building , she barked at first but after a while she ran around with him , also there was a grumpy cocker barking nonstop at her which she ignored and concentrated on running with Cesar , then came the woman with George the Airedale terrier and he ran near her to say hi ,she cried like if someone was killing her , i put a leash on her and walked around, needless to say George never came near her again  but i petted him while she was on leash so she would see that he was a good guy. Today she saw Cesar from a distance while walking on leash and she barked at him again which i corrected with a sharp No and walk the other way . Its hard to take a video , sometimes i go down with my camera and i don't find any dogs , I'll keep trying |
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Post by von Cosack on Nov 21, 2011 20:02:29 GMT -5
Its the 7th day whats up? Von
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Post by daynieto on Nov 22, 2011 23:26:13 GMT -5
Its the 7th day whats up? Von I think she is a mix of the two , she played with the bichon frise the other day in the fenced area here in the building , she barked at first but after a while she ran around with him , also there was a grumpy cocker barking nonstop at her which she ignored and concentrated on running with Cesar , then came the woman with George the Airedale terrier and he ran near her to say hi ,she cried like if someone was killing her , i put a leash on her and walked around, needless to say George never came near her again but i petted him while she was on leash so she would see that he was a good guy. Today she saw Cesar from a distance while walking on leash and she barked at him again which i corrected with a sharp No and walk the other way . Its hard to take a video , sometimes i go down with my camera and i don't find any dogs , I'll keep trying |
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Post by 4Dobies on Nov 23, 2011 3:11:58 GMT -5
Great thread! I think that socialization of your puppy is extremely important and plays a major factor in how your dog will act as an adult.
That being said, I also believe that the way you socialize your dog is just as important as the act itself.
As Von stated so well, puppies are puppies, they need to play with other dogs their own age off leash in a controlled environment to learn their social behaviors. Puppy kindergarten is a great place for that as long as they allow the dogs to play off leash before they train on leash.
Personally after some bad experiences with Leia at a doggy park, I won't take any of my dogs to public off leash parks where the amount of bad owners is usually equal to the amount of bad dogs. But we frequently take our dogs on leash to parks and outdoor public events where there will be crowds of folks and many dogs.
We have 2 Dobermans that were puppies when we got them, Leia 2 1/2 years and Ranger 4 1/2 months, mother and son. Both have excellent temperaments and love everyone. Both have had extensive socialization, but mainly because of our lack of experience at the time there are slight differences in the way Ranger is being socialized versus the way Leia was, and we can already see how it affected both dogs differently.
Leia went through puppy kindergarten and Obedience without ever really being let off the leash, as a young dog, a pit bull went after her in an off leash park. She can have a tendency, that we have worked very hard to correct to be dog aggressive when she is on leash. And forget about it if she sees a pit bull.
With Ranger the first 20 minutes of puppy class is spent playing with the other dogs, he will probably never be taken to an off leash park, but he does get to socialize off leash with dogs we know. We can already see the difference in how he reacts to other dogs than Leia did at the same age.
As important as socialization is it can be a double edged sword if not done correctly.
Michael
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Post by von Cosack on Nov 23, 2011 9:55:23 GMT -5
Why walk the other way? Take advantage of the situation to "train"! Meet the problem head on with a calm deliberate attitude. You need to be "on time" with your corrections they need to be immediate and physically snappy. You could walk her out using the rest of her OB tasks like sitting then moving Heel right away then go back closer to the dog and your ready for her to fail and be on time again with a big correction. You must instill in the dog that your the boss and shes the subordinate. Get serious and get to the point if you need to get angree abit to be able to perform on time then go for it. You have to subject her to your will and what you want and theres no if's ands or buts about it.
If I could train that dog in 5 seconds theres no reason you can't get it done in 15 minutes. Thats a fact too, gret it done. Von
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Post by turbok9 on Nov 23, 2011 12:48:28 GMT -5
Off leash parks have been mentioned a couple times. I personally would never ever ever bring a dog to one for socialization. The typical park user cannot control their dog, they don't know how to recognize danger signs and preempt bad behavior, and most go to suck on a latte and flirt while their dogs act like idiots.... that's my experience anyway.
IMHO off leash parks are not controlled environments, and socialization, especially with pups or skittish dogs, needs to be done in a controlled manner. One bad visit and you can seriously 'damage' the dog you are socializing.
Just saying. ;D
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gotta like that aggressive man 
but i petted him while she was on leash so she would see that he was a good guy. 
