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Post by trinitydobes on Aug 13, 2011 14:48:49 GMT -5
How Often Should You Vaccinate Your DogPosted By: TrinityDobes This topic is a shifting landscape with knowledge gained through recent and ongoing research studies - when and how much to vaccinate your dog should not be left in the hands of just your veterinarian - your vet is incentivised by the vaccine manufacturers to sell you their vaccines. Vets receive gifts, wineing and dining, and gifts for their committment to buy both drugs and vaccines from the different drug companies Please take the time to watch this very informative interview with Dr. Schultz HOW OFTEN SHOULD YOU VACCINATE YOUR DOG?, an interview with Dr. Ronald Schultz in 4 parts: Part (1) www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC--bGthNN8Part (2) www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Zvg8tIxeY&feature=relatedPart (3) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-6exZcbJ4&feature=relmfuPart (4) www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPhj8Vq9ck&feature=relmfu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted by Rits Very informative, Gail. Quick question as I tried to find some answers to, but most of the information was outdated, what cost do titers typically run for? Do most vets provide titers if you ask? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reply by TrinityDobes Thanks Day, and Sorry Rits, I lost track of this thread and missed your question. I live in VA and my vet charges $114 for Distemper Parvo and the Rabies Titer is $293.50 I think it is amazing that the titers are so much, and have asked my vet if these tests are so high, so as to influence or encourage pet owners to take the cheaper route and just give the vaccinations - after all what could it hurt? I am stil doing titers on my older dogs, it may come back and bite me in the butt at some point in the future, but for now, with the research that is out there, I am going to pay the extra and do the titter. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post by gemmasmomma on Aug 31, 2011 15:49:12 GMT -5
youtu.be/_a6oDCJPdGQI cannot get this video to post as a video on here...  so you must go to the link!
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Post by 4Dobies on Aug 31, 2011 20:04:21 GMT -5
Other than Rabies (since you need a certificate) we do all our own vaccinations. Doctors Fosters and Smith has decent prices on vaccines and it saves us quite a lot of money.
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Sept 1, 2011 8:05:08 GMT -5
My get their boster shot very year and every 3 years the rabis
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Post by prettyfeetsmom on Sept 1, 2011 8:27:40 GMT -5
I stopped being the "good girl" who gave vaccines every year when I lost a dog after doing that. I did my reasearch and knew my dogs had enough protection in them to last their lifetime. The only thing that I do yearly is a rabies (our are won't accept the 3 year one) a heartworm check and a fecal. I will do titers if and when needed.
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Post by daynieto on Sept 1, 2011 9:32:28 GMT -5
Yep ! titers here too , no more annual booster for my dogs , and no more vaccines for my 9 year old fox terrier .
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Post by trinitydobes on Sept 1, 2011 19:24:45 GMT -5
I have done titers - but in watching the video that Diva posted - that Dr Jordan said that the titer test that we are all using - is the ONLY test we have and that the level of titer does not EQUAL level of IMMUNITY!!!
I am very concerned with this - in fact that whole video has me pretty upset. I can understand the premise of vaccinations actually beating down and diminishing the natural immunity dogs are born with. BUT.... how many puppies would I have to loose along the way if I were to go to no vaccinations as advocated by Dr. Jordan in order to get out to 4 or 5 generations which would evidence the greatest herd or pack health.
Feeding raw is a big part of her equation and I am sorry I have 9 adult dogs - there is no source here, like others have stated they have, for an affordable raw diet.
I am not ready to abandon vaccinations in their entirety - especially with the puppies - I am open to learning and finding a better way - but I won't leave puppies unprotected and assume that I will be able to nurse them through and have them not die. breeding is not for the faint of heart but I won't knowingly and willingly risk my pups lives.
I've sent an email off to Dr. Jean Dodds - and asked her opinion on the video and what breeders today should be thinking of doing to embrace this change of protocol - and exactly how much risk are we putting puppies in if we do not vaccinate them at all.
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 2, 2011 11:41:44 GMT -5
Gail: IT is disturbing... its incredible and intensely disturbing....
something to remember: MUCH dare I say "ALL" of the parvo 'awareness' is also coupled with sensationalism and 'scare tactics' to keep the 'status quo"... and clearly its working and its been serving the industry well, so its continually heralded as the 'latest news'.... ergo 'scare tactics' to keep us from challenging the status quo.. fearful people are really easy to control...
ALso...
consider that if you were to find a raw group who buys in bulk that you too could feed raw and feed it as cost effectively as you can kibble.. I know this to be true....
carcasses are the best way to feed a group of dogs like you have.. so that can be done, because people are doing it and it is cost effective. The cost is around $2/lb and that is what it cost to feed kibble and to supplement because you MUJST if you only feed kibble.
SO that is a possibility for you...
also I found a veterinarian's website who advocated puppy shots BUT MUCH MUCH Older than when we are giving them... like not until the are 16-22 weeks.... and only ONE vaccination to start the process of immunology in teh system and once its started its effective for a liftime...
so perhaps there are ways and means here that can give you a peace of mind?
I also recommend that you Join and inquire with the natural rearing breeders association regarding your fears and see what kind of answers you get? Perhaps you will find that you get all the answers you need and assauge ALL of your fears and doubts?
this issue is a serious enough issue to warrant an awakening entirely of the ethical breeders community...
you do not have to lose any puppies in the process! They can survive IF they get it...
the same argument is being waged with human babies.. .people are saying NO to immunizations for their children and they are utilizing a much more natural approach and treating the IMMUNE system of the child and not just 'defaulting' to the fall back position of: IF we dont vaccinate they COULD Get something lethal... what if they do not? what if none of your puppies came down with anything at all and all were perfectly healthy and well... because the argument that "Parvo vaccines' PREVENT parvo.. is flawed and its a lie... It does NOT prevent it... its CAUSING it... so why would we continue to put these lethal disease into our dogs and continue to 'imagine' that we are safe from it?
I think it warrants much much more investigation....
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 2, 2011 11:48:51 GMT -5
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Post by trinitydobes on Sept 2, 2011 15:21:39 GMT -5
Susie oyur first 2 words are what I can't yet get past
WHAT IF?
What I know is that in 20 years of raising pups - I have vaccinated against parvo - limited exposure from environmental sources and I've not yet had one case of parvo. I just can't make that leap of faith on a WHAT IF? WHAT IF I don't vaccinate and the entire litter gets parvo and they die? WHAT THEN? I am on breeder lists world wide and I have read about the devastation of entire litters being lost to parvo prior to them receiving their first vaccination. I have read of litters that were exposed after 2 vaccinations and those pups got sick - some, not all - but none died. So my empiracle evidence is that the vaccine does much more good than harm.
Until someone says I PROMISE YOU that if you do this......... that your puppies will not die a horrible agonizing death if you do not vaccinate - I'm not climbing on this train.... yet .... I will do my own researach and educate myself as I think OVER vaccination and repeated boosters are not necessary and deliterious.
I agree that the later we give the shots the better - except for parvo, I corresponded with Dr. Jean Dodds - who has studied vaccines as well and advocates Schultz's research and study on VID. She said until I was ready to give up on cropping my puppies that if I planned to take them to the vet @ 7 1/2 weeks for cropping then I needed to give NeoPar @ 6 weeks to protect them during their 24 to 36 hour stay at the vets. She recommends the next vaccination at 9 wks of Distemper and Parvo only, and the 2nd in the 3 shot series to be given at 12 weeks, again just distemper and parvo and the last shot should be given at 14 weeks - she advocates not giving Rabies until 5 or 6 months old if at all possible.
So far this protocol has given me peace of mind in protecting the pups while at the vets for cropping - but its a minimal protocal - she does not advocate lymes, lepto, and all the rest.
As a breedeer I feel this responsiblity keenly - am keeping an open mind - and will do my research because I am already there with Overuse of vaccines being dangerous to our pets health
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Post by dreamvalley on Sept 4, 2011 21:57:09 GMT -5
You may call me crazy... but I do only Rabies after my dogs reach maturity (2 years old).
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 4, 2011 23:21:01 GMT -5
Gail: clearly you gotta go with your feeling of comfort and until you are there, you are not gonna make any leap of faith.... I am just further along in my conviction then you are. I am far more comfortable with it, for the reasons that I feed raw.. I feed pro biotics and I feed enzyme supplementation ( www.naturalrearing.com/coda/l_enzymes.html ) and will. My puppies will be weaned onto raw from day one.. they will be given raw goats milk with infant pro biotics and also given raw goat, raw lamb and the rest. I wont allow my puppies and or Gemma to eat any grains and or be around any chemicals. I do not treat my dogs with heart worm meds, I do not treat them with flea chemicals and I do not spray my yard with them either. My puppies will NOT go into get ears cropped till they are 12 weeks old and I will do my own tails and dew's. SO NO exposure to a vet's office till their immune system's are mature enough to handle it. I MIGHT do a single parvo KILLED vaccine or homeopathic nosodes for those puppies who are slated to have their ears done, but not till they are at least 8 weeks old ( www.naturalrearing.com/coda/n_new_vaccination_protocol.html ) and then I would not take them to the Vet's office until they were 12 weeks old. cropped ears stand just as good when done at this age as they do if done at 8 weeks. I would prefer that they are solidly internally strong enough to withstand a 2 day event at the vet's office. My puppy buyers will be advised that I raise my puppies naturally and do not believe in vaccines... if they want to vaccinate them, they do so because they choose to do so, but I will not be encouraging DHLPP's for ANY puppy to leave my kennel. I will also be making it known that My puppies are raw fed and if they want to have a health guarantee, they will need to also feed raw or at least TOTALLY GRAIN FREE and a kibble that is high quality until the puppy is at least 12 months of age... if they do not, they will not have a health guaranteed. I wont guarantee the health of a puppy that is fed some cheap ass dog food like Old Roy, or even Purina... no way no how. If they want to abide by my recommendations I will have a health guarantee! At least at this stage its where I will probably go... I intend to join that natural breeders association and model my own breeding strategies after theirs. www.naturalrearing.com/coda/breeders.htmlwww.blackwolfdobermans.com/index2.htmblackwolf3079@sbcglobal.net Natural rearing Doberman breeder.. perhaps you could inquire about their successes and what they do about vaccinations, ear cropping etc... just for the 'hell'of it...  |
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Post by von Cosack on Sept 5, 2011 16:40:14 GMT -5
After the pup is cleared on puppy shots I give a booster at 3.5 to 4 years old, and will utilize the titer with my current dog. I've done this since 1975 and prior to that my Uncle did all the dogs shots and I never asked what he used or how often. They lasted a long time hahahaha!!! Von
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Post by dobs4ever on Sept 7, 2011 8:49:10 GMT -5
(quote)am very concerned with this - in fact that whole video has me pretty upset. I can understand the premise of vaccinations actually beating down and diminishing the natural immunity dogs are born with. BUT.... how many puppies would I have to loose along the way if I were to go to no vaccinations as advocated by Dr. Jordan in order to get out to 4 or 5 generations which would evidence the greatest herd or pack health. (quote)
Gail - I could not agree more with you on this. Distemper used to take a lot of puppies until the vaccine was discovered and now we almost never hear of distemper and when I do hear of it it is always from an unvaccinated puppy.
I would be crushed if someone lost a puppy to a disease I could have prevented by giving puppy vaccines.
I do not give any vaccines after the puppy shots. I give one 3 year rabies.
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so you must go to the link! 
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