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Post by Shadowlands on Aug 22, 2011 6:26:42 GMT -5
On a different thread this was touched upon and we thought we would ask Buyers rather than Breeders about this. In regards to Health Guarantees, what do you all look for from your Breeder? What would you like to see improved in the contracts (in general) in this aspect? And generally, what is your opinion on Health Guarantees? It has also been mentioned about price differences between pet and show pups...your opinion on this would be appreciated. Thanks everyone for your participation on this.  |
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Post by 4Dobies on Aug 22, 2011 12:53:13 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this up, along with proper testing I think this is one of the more important things a new buyer should be looking for when researching a puppy.
That being said,we looked for a guarantee that showed the breeder was confident their breeding program would produce dogs that were healthy and free of genetic defects. That the breeder would stand by their dogs for a number of years and not require the dog be returned if anything did happen.
The guarantee to us is not a means of getting a new puppy if something happens but a commitment from the breeder that they have done everything possible to insure our puppy lives a long life.
As far as the difference in prices between pet and show pup prices I'm not sure, can a breeder actually guarantee that a puppy that is sold as show pup be successful in the conformation ring? And if the puppy grows up to be lacking in the qualities needed to compete should the buyer get a refund on the difference in price between the show puppy and the pet puppy? I'm sure someone with more experience in these matters will have a better answer.
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Aug 22, 2011 12:56:28 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this up, along with proper testing I think this is one of the more important things a new buyer should be looking for when researching a puppy. That being said,we looked for a guarantee that showed the breeder was confident their breeding program would produce dogs that were healthy and free of genetic defects. That the breeder would stand by their dogs for a number of years and not require the dog be returned if anything did happen. The guarantee to us is not a means of getting a new puppy if something happens but a commitment from the breeder that they have done everything possible to insure our puppy lives a long life. As far as the difference in prices between pet and show pup prices I'm not sure, can a breeder actually guarantee that a puppy that is sold as show pup be successful in the conformation ring? And if the puppy grows up to be lacking in the qualities needed to compete should the buyer get a refund on the difference in price between the show puppy and the pet puppy? I'm sure someone with more experience in these matters will have a better answer. Nope they can't and if a breeder makes a difference in the price he wont give you the difference back, if it dosen't work out. Like i said in the other thread, there shouldn't be a price difference in the first place. |
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Post by Shadowlands on Aug 22, 2011 14:24:54 GMT -5
I think that is why a fair amount of breeders use the words "show prospect". No, a breeder cannot guarantee that a pup will grow to be a fabulous example of the breed within the show ring but I do think they would have a better eye than say you or I. As for price differences, I don't honestly see a problem with it. Why should not a show prospect be slightly higher as they are supposed to be closer to the standard and possibly considered better quality. I am not saying that is my opinion, I am saying there is a different way of looking at it. As for saying no breeder returns the difference, well I actually know of two personally that do that exact thing if the show prospect does not work out (there are conditions to this). I will say they have never had anyone return any of their show pups either. Some great info you guys have shared and I thank you. Anyone else have an opinion? Don't be shy now. This is just a discussion, all opinions will be respected here.  |
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Post by DeDe on Aug 22, 2011 14:33:58 GMT -5
Another question I would like to add to the list is:
As a puppy buyer, what kind of health tests (if any) do you require of the Sire and Dam, AND... Do you truly understand what they are for and what the results mean?
Would be interesting to hear y'alls input...
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Post by HEXE- TINA on Aug 22, 2011 14:40:23 GMT -5
Another question I would like to add to the list is: As a puppy buyer, what kind of health tests (if any) do you require of the Sire and Dam, AND... Do you truly understand what they are for and what the results mean? Would be interesting to hear y'alls input... OK let me started for me i think i want a bit of health testing, like VWD, Hips, eyes and thyorid and thats enough for me. Beside that i look what titles the parents are having and from what line they are coming, i do not really care about show titles, not my thing, but i like to see the parents working in one kind of sport and hope those genes come out in the puppy. Like aesa she is all what i was asking for and more LOL, she is my challenge and my firecracker and one healthy happy girl and i'm sure she will do very well in SCH or any other kind of sport, but for now we are in SCH. And i know DeDe looks very much for long livity and makes sure both parents will fit together very well. So when it comes to breeding, health and choice making, i trust her to the bone, same i would do with Gail, both know very well, what they been doing ( or so i hope ) But most of all, i know, no matter what i could call them any time and they will support their buyers forever and you don't find that much out there. |
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Post by damasyn on Aug 22, 2011 15:06:57 GMT -5
Ok, I am a novice ( to say the least ) in regards to buying a good dog. Lexi is my first. First thing I looked at ~ at the breeders house was conditions of the dogs, how she treated them ( home cooked meals ) willingness to sit and talk about everything.
She showed me mom and dad, gave me photos with Reg. numbers. copies of mom and dads health tests results from the vets. She also gave me copies of their family trees lol all the way back to great grand sires/dams that also had OFA hip numbers etc etc.
As for health guarantees, personally I think its kind of a toss up. Its nice to see testing done on mom and dad and grand sires...etc etc. But to me, health just cant be guaranteed. Genetics are huge, but you never know just when a "switch" will be flipped or the environment takes its toll and your dog comes up with something weird. Its a roll of the dice.
For the Sire and Dam, I was concerned with VW, Cardio, and hips.
The price was the last thing I looked at. But after getting to know the breeder and how she dealt with her dogs, the price of 1500.00 was in no way out of line IMO. Lexi will be 3 on December 4th and her "Grandma" comes to visit her once every other month and she is almost 80 yrs old !!!
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Post by trinitydobes on Aug 22, 2011 21:18:49 GMT -5
great responses you guys! keep it going!
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robb
New Member
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Post by robb on Dec 13, 2011 19:57:45 GMT -5
...I realize that this thread is older...
I am looking at the health tests for the pup, Sire/Dam. vWD, Card, Hips, Tyroid, Wobbler.
I'd like to see the Sire/Dam if possible (often times it is not).
I believe that it is custom to go back at least 5 generations to show the pedigree of the pup.
I've also read that there are "temperament" tests that can be given to the pups at week 7? Bah.
I would like to know if the dog is more of a working temperament, family, guardian.
Any guarantees would show me that the breeder believes in their own work. I have seen 6 year health and temperament guarantees.
So...health testing, information on the pups family/generations, temperament tests...and whether or not the pups are more "working" or "family" pets.
Am I making sense?
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Post by 4Dobies on Dec 14, 2011 1:13:37 GMT -5
Sounds like you are on the right track, One of the reasons in researching the puppies pedigree is to establish the longevity in the lines, Gail is the resident expert and I'm sure she could help you along those lines.
The temperament testing is done when they are puppies to help the breeder (correct me if I'm wrong) determine the best match for the puppies and owners. We helped with the temperament testing with Leia's puppies, and in most cases we could see what puppies were going to be more dominant and harder to handle for those that just wanted pets. That being said, any Doberman from good lines should really be capable of working, some will just be more driven and will accept certain types of training better depending on their temperament.
It sounds like you want more of a laid back puppy and a good breeder should be able to match the right puppy for your family. It's not always 100% but they will do the best they can.
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Post by doberdelight on Dec 14, 2011 6:49:20 GMT -5
heres what i look for and it isnt what you are meant to look for. So anyone reading this dont go by opinion:)
1) i like to see the condition of the breeders house, if its a dump then no chance
2) i like to see that the pups are all happy and have toys etc to play with and bedding etc.
3) i like to see the dam/sire and what they look like and if they look healthy.
4)health testing is a tricky one. im happy to see eyes/hips and thyroid(like tina)and vWD status checked and tested. DCM isnt a big issue to me as of yet but that is because its not a normal testing over here and from what i have read tests can show negative one day and positive a week later.
I like a breeder that will call you every now and then to check everything is ok and a breeder you can call at any time to ask the most random of questions
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robb
New Member
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Post by robb on Dec 14, 2011 19:41:07 GMT -5
Doberdelight- that last line is something that I might find to be nice. A "hey, how are things...can i get a picture...hope all is well, any questions?" Would be more of a "customer service" type effort...which might be lacking in this type of...labor of love.
My sister purchased a Golden Something With Long Hair (Eewwe) kidding...and the breeder calls/emails every so often and they talk about her dog.
While many/most might not want a "relationship" with the breeder of their pup...there are some of us that would like that type of association, especially when it is about the dog.
There is one breeder that travels to the "areas" where his pups are, and travels with the parents...to see/meet/hang out with the puppys-grown dogs. Strictly voluntary of course. lol
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Post by cathynu on Dec 14, 2011 20:35:29 GMT -5
I am one of those who likes to continue my association with the breeder of my dog. I still have an association with the lady I got my Airedales from - wonderful woman who was a lovely careful breeder - but also a suscinct breeder - got the absolute bestest Dales from her!!! Great temperament, very well adjusted, smart dogs!! Could reccomend her to anyone!!! I also still have an association with Rex's breeder - nice lady .... but sadly not a careful, suscinct breeder as I would have hoped .... but that again comes from not doing your homework properly and buying in haste!!! I also have a lovely association with Lilly's breeders over in Poland - we continue to exchange e-mails and we're hooked up to each others facebook. I exchange Christmas cards with all of the breeders, and I have no qualms to contact them at anytime with any questions I may have. I'm of the opinion these assocations are PARAMOUNT!!!
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