(quote)In america its much the same with those breeding for the breed ring - I've heard comments such as "I don't care whether he lives to 10 - just so long as he lives long enough to earn his championship"(quote)
Gail I have been around the show ring and breeder/judges for many years and have never heard any reputatble breeder who would say this. Are you saying you actually heard a breeder say this??? I think that is one of the myths that some of the doom sayers like to use to slam all breeders.
Suzan - I won't state who this breeder was in an open forum, she is a DPCA member and breeder - but I will send you an email about who this breeder was - and she is not the only one when I've had discussions about health and longevity with other american breeders.We are criticized for everything and I tell you when a breeder raises, trains and campaigns a puppy to its champoinship and then it dies it is like throwing money down the drain. I can't imagine any breeder having that attitude. It sets you back at least 4 years in your breeding program not to mention the loss of money and investment.
Suzan - the statisics that are accumulated for breeders and their dogs just capture the number of champions produced by a breeder or by a stud or out of a dam - A champion produced gets counted for the statistics whether he lives to 4 or 10 - the statiscs that I give much more weight to are the number of dogs a breeder has produced that have obtained DPCA BFL certifications. when you look at the list on the DPCA website - its amazing the breeders who are NOT represented or who have very few listed. Today more than ever American breeders are stepping up to the line and leading in health testing. I bought my own holter so I can holter. Most of the show breeders I know and work with are very conscious of health and also invested in their own holter.
But I go back to the 3 legged stool - no breeder will be successful who only focuses on one aspect of the Doberman. To be correct and well rounded they have to focus on conformation, working ability (temperament) and health. Take any leg away and the stool will not stand.
We are agreed on this - breeders need to try and breed for the whole dog When people make statements like that they slam everyone and make it harder to help JQP understand all that goes into every breeding. DPCA has the chic program and have contributed to many research projects. At Natls each year they have a FREE blood clinic to draw blood samples for research.
I think the CHIC program is wonderful - but far too many get all the testing done at 2 and obtain that CHIC number and never do any testing again - the CHIC can give you a definite false sense of security if these tests are not updated and kept current. CHIC certification is no guarantee of longevity - to many have died way before 10.I am proud to say every Doberman I have was taken to Natls and had
blood drawn. I drove 3 hours one way for 3 days to get all my dogs done. I sent samples in to the Wobbler, CVI research, I have done PDK4 on all my dogs.
This is a wonderful thing - and well done Suzan - I supported via blood samples the research done that produced the vWD DNA test. I have done PDK4 on most all my dogs - more in support of the research, than as a guarantee of any health prediction.There are not many who have done every single test on every single dog - We do our best and work with what we have but I will not point fingers because no one is perfect and done it all in showing, training or testing.
Suzan I agree no one is perfect and most breeders who know their pedigrees will know the things that are the most important to screen or do health testing for - but I will not remain silent when I see a breeder who does NO health testing not even a min of OFA Hips, Thyroid or vWD - I will point the finger at these breeders EVERYTIME. There is no excuse - none for not doing any health testing when you deliberately CHOOSE to breed your dog.Euro breeders are the same - they got slapped down big time and now they are stepping up to the plate and doing far more testing. I have not found it easier to find DOD listed on Euro dogs than American.
Suzan please tell me where you are looking for American dogs DOD? because the only source I have found is DobeQuest - and the DOD on most entries in this database are just not there - where as there are a half dozen Euro databases (DVIN, DR, Doberman Pedigree Database etc) all of which have noted the DOD on a much larger percentage of the dogs listed when compared to DobeQuest. If you have another source for this information please share so I can then enter this information in my own personal database! Both are hard and it is only the last 10 years that people really had a global way through the internet to get the word out. So prior to that we have to go back and ask people who might have known the dogs or have info. That is sketchy at best and can be very very wrong.
Suzan you are a DPCA member - why is it not a bigger priority by the parent organization to get the membership to enter their dogs and to keep the information updated? it would be a huge help if more breeders entered their dogs.But even the DNA test that have come out have been a big disappointment and don't give us all the info we need to absolutely eliminate anything except Vwd. In the PDK4 we can and will certainly eliminate that gene but it will not eliminate DCM which is a complicated problem associated with at least several differnt or combination of genes. We must pull together - not put breeders down who are trying very hard to find answers - But until there are REAL answers we are still shooting blind.
Not so blind Suzan, we are much luckier today to have some tests, and they are truly helpful, most breeders are testing for hips and Dobes have steadily retreated lower and lower on the ranking of dog breeds testing with hip displaysia, and less than 1% of all dobes tested have any abnormal elbows, Thyroid testing is lowering the incidence of hypro thyroidism and its only through breeder "choice" that vWD affected dogs are used in any breeding program. IMHO even with these tests to help, its through pedigree research and running breeding co-efficient reports that is still the best way to lower health risks for the Big 3 C's of Cardio, Cancer and CVI. All of these things that can lower the risk and increase the chance of longevity are out there for breeders to use - they don't give us 20/20 vision - but we are are far from flying blind today - IF we choose to use the tools at hand.
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