Aggression to Other Dogs and People

[Shadowlands]

My question is this: what steps would you recommend if your doberman was becoming intolerant of other dogs?

And the second part is what would you do if your doberman had attacked (even with minor damage) another person, completely unprovoked?

[DeDe]

Unprovoked aggression is NOT tolerated under any circumstances with my guys! Towards humans or other animals! If they are on a leash at the time, they are SEVERELY corrected! They must fully understand that this behavior is in NO WAY acceptable! Of course, as soon as the behavior ends and they refocus on me, they are praised just as highly. In today's society, any unprovoked aggression from a dobermann is a major liability, whether it's followed thru or not!
Just remember, if you are not fully versed in the drives and body language of the dogs, you can't be sure WHY the aggressive act happened. Fear, confidence issues, challenges, etc. If you are not comfortable with, or competent enough to handle the corrections needed, SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP NOW!

[Shadowlands]

I totally agree DeDe. And any time we find we are making excuses such as "she is coming into heat" or anything else, we need to recognize that there are NO circumstances that behaviour like this is acceptable nor tolerated.

Don't excuse your dog(s), fix them. If you are unsure as to how to go about doing that, do as DeDe recommends by seeking professional help...immediately!

[DeDe]

I admit that I have seen this behavior in some of my dogs and have handled it rather quickly. IF the incident occurs while offleash, I regain control of my dog as quickly as possible, then I get to training. I set them up for the fall! Cruel? I think not. How else can you teach them what is wrong? I will put them in similar situations while onleash and try to recreat3e the response. It usually takes several attempts since they know they are now onleash, but, it WILL happen again. When it does, I am primed and ready to deliver the necessary correction followed with praise when correct.
Don't NAG your dogs when doing this. Deliver ONE swift correction and make it count! I would much rather have an avoidance behavior then face a lawsuit.

[Shadowlands]

Very good points DeDe. Corrections must be immediate and to the point.

[eziekel]

Both of you are absolutely correct. I DO NOT tolerate aggression in any shape form or way, whether it be to a cat, another dog or human. There are definite consequences for behavior that is unacceptable and I am very fortunate to have had this instilled into my dogs. I do think with the explosion of the "positive training method" that it has become detrimental to several breeds that may require a stonger hand and far more intelligent and responsible handling than may be required by i.e a Golden. It is not my intenion to demerit other training principles, but I have had a great deal of success with my own methods. I am a firm believer in ill behavour warrants consequences and good behavior is encouraged through both verbal and other rewards (especially dehydrated sweet potatoes) As owners of Dobes we are unfortunately mandated to have far better behaved and trained animals than that of perhaps other breeds. But then the dobe is a breed with tremendous intelligence and ability to reason and unfortunately all too many times that is not the case with the owner.

[von Cosack]

Unprovoked is just way to subjective!! Other than an attack on a child (under 10yrs) theres always something that occured that can make sense of "why"! When I hear stories and reports of a dog mauling a baby in a crib I just would suggest the dog be put down immediately because a dog needs to discriminate between threat and non threat even when their not trained to do so. If a canine is void with that basic socialization within its genes then its not a quality dog, in fact a danger!
Agression is a beautiful thing especially in The Dobermann it is a positive trait within the character and gives the breed its outstanding temperament. The only problem is that the original character needed to be polished and approved because the canine version isn't enough within the social net work of society. Training the Dobermann to clearly distinguish threat and non threat and alert first unless left to fend is essential for their mental health and prosperity. Any Dobermann owner who doesn't test their dogs for courage is a fool! No one buys a loaded gun and accepts the responsibilty of ownership with out gaining knowlewdge on how the gun "works"! Dobermann=Gun except Dobermann turns corners!! theres much more on this topic but I'm tired!
Von.

[nobite]

The initial question had to do with simply a dog becoming intolerant of other dogs. I may be misunderstanding this question, but to me it could mean your dog needs space that the other dog(s) and/or other owner is not giving your dog. This happens to me frequently when I walk in a park with my dog on-leash (of course). Some times we are suddenly confronted with off leash, uncontrolled dogs. I have one dog that takes great exception to that! She is excitable around other dogs in controlled situations, but very excitable in uncontrolled situations. And, it could be that I am tensing up, expecting a confrontation, and thereby actually eliciting a confrontation! So, I think this is a complicated question.

[panama]

I can see a dog showing alertness, and maybe even a little dominance (head as high as possible/tail up... etc) when another dog approaches, but never aggresssion, and the dominance kept "in check", as I AM THE DOMINANT ONE. When another dog is peacefully walking past, there is no reason what so ever for a dog to act aggressive. With strange dogs, there should NEVER be a nose to nose greeting.

I don't allow any type of aggression amongst my own crew, I certainly wouldn't allow them to be that way towards someone else's dog.

As for a dog biting someone... I can't say how I'd react or what I'd do... I've never had a dog that's ever bitten anyone! I'd more then likely snatch the dog back into reality with the correction, remove the dog from the situation then crate or kennel the dog. Time out/loss of freedom for a period, then maybe later work strict obedience. The first thing the next day, I'd be finding someone that had experience with these type of issues to avoid another incident.

[von Cosack]

nobite; most healthy Dobermann males are going to try to dominate other males and often females once they've reached 3 to 4 years old. Its very common and comes with owning an outspoken character that most working breeds are going to have.
If you didn't work in an excellant OB program to combat the demeanor when their pups or if your taking on a rescue or an older dog thats when you can use a boarding kennel situation as I mentioned in my other thread to be able to re-inact the situation in a controled environment.
You maybe adding to the encounters you mentioned by tensing up and your dogs will feel a negative vibe from you. When you encounter a loose dog put your dogs on a heel and try not to tense up and just simply move by them. If the dog comes up on you just tell the dog to "GO" and keep moving. Don't let a dog come up behind your dogs, let your dogs defend their space and if they bark its just yelling at the other dog. It happens and I have a different approach but I'm suggesting a calmer approach to you. I let my male out to the end of the leash with a "problem dog" and their aren't many dogs willing to deal with a full grown male Dobermann. I won't allow a fight to happen but I won't let my dog give his "area" up. My yell at the other dog has never failed as long as I'm close and my dog is by my side. I have a very dominate attitude and I can relate this to dogs very easily and I've had very very few challenge my authority.
Your dog that gets ecited would benefit from a kennel situation where you could work her from a distance then move closer as she does better. If you use treats to train then your in trouble because reward in these situations can get confusing. I prefer compulsion using a choke chain and incorperate direction changes. Both very quickly done with not much force unless the aggression is at a high level. After a correction OB needs to be implicated immeduiately. You need to work the dog at a fast pace so theres nothing for her to do other than react to you.
I have trained dogs that will not give up the fight but they are a rare exception. Most adult males are not willing to tolerate another male and their toleration is a canine thing not a humans interpurtation of toleration. Its natural and normal and a genetic plus when it comes to a fight mode when training for PP. I've never owned a docile male and have experienced very few even when they're seniors theres a certain amount of distain for other males. Try the boarding kennel to build confidence and correct unwanted behavior. I've used the same senerio many many times. .....good luck. Von

[nobite]

Thank you! Yes, I am working with a rescue dog. Actually, two. My male exhibits exactly the behavior you describe and I do not think his behavior is out of place or out of control. The male can go to the end of the leash as you mention. It's the female that really needs some work!

I am going to search for your post regarding the kennel situation. Sounds interesting. Where we live, we rarely encounter dogs on our daily walks. But, when we go camping at the horse park, we always encounter dogs on our walks, many loose, to my disgust. My female just acts over-stimulated around strange dogs. She has been like this since we got her about 3 years ago at age 7. I actually have a good friend with a dog boarding business. If your suggestion is to use dogs in a kennel as the distraction and work my female in OB, getting closer to the dogs as she can tolerate and still obey my commands, then I may know of a place to do this! Still, I need to find your post and read it carefully. Thanks!

[von Cosack]

The post I'm speaking of is above! Just take your dog a distance from the fencing and work OB, get closer as she improves. When she focuses on to a dog correct her then continue her OB forcing her to refocus back on to you. Don't waste corrections be very quick and on time. As soon as she focuse on the dogs correct her. You need to be on top of the situation and your correction for her focussing on the dogs is no different then any other corrections.
If you treat trained your dog or she was trained with positive rewards they won't work with this situation thats one of the draw backs of that type of training. You can still enforce the corrections then get her into an OB routine and as you settle her begin to move away again from the fence you can gift her but I'd prefer a toy over food.
This is always difficult to suggest techniques without seeing the dog and meeting the handler but what I'm suggesting are very obvious and common techniques for an aggressive dog. This has worked very well for me and it is a problem that needs to be corrected if possible. Get to it, let me know how it works. Von