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Post by dobrescuer on Feb 3, 2012 11:04:31 GMT -5
At the local PetSmart they are selling shocking collars and I have had to help many Doberman breed owners on not using such a torture. Many have told me that it is the only way trainers have told them to use. Am I the only one that needs none of these contraptions to train and care for Dobermans? Your input will be greatly appreciated.
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Post by DeDe on Feb 3, 2012 11:13:05 GMT -5
An electronic collar, as a prong, choke chain, or leash, is just another tool that can be used. It depends on you, your abilities, your dobermann's temperment and a good trainer to use ANY tool correctly. John Q Public does NOT need to use these things as they don't have the proper training to use them correctly! Any tool can be abused, but with the proper training, can make life easier and possibly better. It also depends on what you plan to do with your dobermann. The average 'pet' should not require most tools available today...
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Post by dobrescuer on Feb 3, 2012 11:29:03 GMT -5
Thanks DeDe!
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Post by 4Dobies on Feb 3, 2012 11:40:59 GMT -5
To use shock as an effective dog training method you will need:
A thorough understanding of canine behavior.
A thorough understanding of learning theory.
Impeccable timing.
And if you have those three things, you don't need a shock collar. --Author unknown
There are no short cuts or magic bullets for training a dog that can substitute for relationship building, skillful teaching, and practicing good habits.
I personally would never use a shock collar, there are so many other ways to do effective training that aren't based on tools that could actually do more harm than good.
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Post by damasyn on Feb 3, 2012 15:02:50 GMT -5
I do have a shock collar... but included in this collar is a vibration mode / sound mode or the static mode.
I rarely use it, but when I do, generally just the vibration mode or the "beep". its great for getting her attention. BUT with that being said, she is also very high prey drive and unfortunately has decided that when a porcupine is around... she ignores everything else. So in this instance, I have decided the next time I am gonna shock her but good if she starts going after one. Better to shock the heck out of her than a face full of quills that can potentialy do permanent damage.
But all in all, I am for training the hell out of em... the less tools needed the happier we will all be.
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Post by von Cosack on Feb 3, 2012 15:32:26 GMT -5
Shock Collars=====Buy Labs, no brains needed! Von.
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Post by trinitydobes on Feb 3, 2012 18:26:07 GMT -5
To use shock as an effective dog training method you will need: A thorough understanding of canine behavior. A thorough understanding of learning theory. Impeccable timing. And if you have those three things, you don't need a shock collar. --Author unknown There are no short cuts or magic bullets for training a dog that can substitute for relationship building, skillful teaching, and practicing good habits.I personally would never use a shock collar, there are so many other ways to do effective training that aren't based on tools that could actually do more harm than good. First I love the comment by the unkown auther and it bears retaining for future use The bolded statement above is the biggest issue with too many dog owners today - too many dog owners want the best result with having made the least amount of effort - there is not shortcut to building a working relationship between you and your dog - you cannot expect your 5 or 6 year old to earn a HS diploma at the end of the first grade - training any of the working breeds especially takes hours and hours of time - there is not short cut. I have people come to my house all the time and say wow your dogs are so friendly and well mannered - I want one of your pups - first - these adut dogs did not raise and train themselves - I train my dogs every day - even the old ones know NILF - its a way of life with these guys - yes I can sell you a great puppy who has the nature and character to end up just like those in my pack - but if you do not take the time to nurture, and mold and teach and train him on a daily basis - your puppy won't end up like mine because you have not nurtured and provided the consistent environmental nurturing to grow your puppy into what mine are. When training a puppy or a normal dog, a shock collar has no place as a training tool. However any one who says they will NEVER use a shock collar has not been in dobes long enough, or trained enough dogs to come across a really tough dog. Depending on the character of the dog - if he has not had the best start there are instances that this TOOL is the last in your bag of training tricks to obtain the obedience to your comand. when all other methods and tools have failed - be thankful that you have one last one to try No dog that you are training or re-training can ever be allowed to flip you the proverbial bird and be deliberately defiant and disobedient to your command. When you say you will never use a shock collar you may be removing the last tool availble in your arsenal of tools to train a difficult dog. As DeDe said any training tool or method can be abused - and most time shock collars are not a way of life - they are a tool that is needed once or twice. just my two cents
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Post by von Cosack on Feb 11, 2012 17:36:36 GMT -5
Hey Gail you aren't talking to me are you? I never put a shocker on any dog other than Area Guards!!! I have no problem and I've handled alot of hard asses in ALL the breeds. Heres the problem, Joe Blow walks in the pet mall store and buys one?? Damage is coming its as simple as that. Stating that the thing is a "tool" does more harm, just say take the mutt to a pro trainer who has enough experience not to use one. Honestly the latest easiest BS is always the way now a days. 'Don't tell me its a needed tool cause your an uneeded "tool"! How the hell were these dogs trained successfully without using it? Theres no one on any of these forums that I've read who needs a shock collar, not one post expressed any problems warrenting it, not one!!! Von
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Post by ingridh on Feb 11, 2012 18:16:22 GMT -5
Theres no one on any of these forums that I've read who needs a shock collar, not one post expressed any problems warrenting it, not one!!! Von Could you please define "need"? I need an e-collar for emergency situations such as when prey pops up unexpectedly. We have deer, porcupines, squirrels, etc around here and my dogs' prey drive excedes their training. If I kept my dogs on leash all the time, I wouldn't "need" an e-collar.
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Post by von Cosack on Feb 11, 2012 19:05:46 GMT -5
Recall might help but then again if you used your environment to train "in" you wouldn't have that problem now would you. My dog sees a deer once a week if he wants to go after them he goes. Do you think hes gonna catch them? Is yours gonna run a deer down? They aren' Deerhunt (deerhounds) and wouldn't be able to maintain the speed needed. My dog is Euro bred and his prey drive is a healthy one so whats the big deal. Do you think your dog is gonna run away from you and live with the deers? If so let him go I guess he likes them more than you. Loosin' up abit and nature run free for a few minutes. Porkies aren't out in the day time and your dog isn't gonna catch any squirells or deer, and if he does then a great feast is set for all by Fido!! Von
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Post by ingridh on Feb 11, 2012 20:12:59 GMT -5
Hahaha! I'd like to see either of my dogs try to go live with the deer! They wouldn't last a day without laying infront of the wood stove and getting regular meals. The deer don't care if they run across roads to get away from dogs though... I worry that my dog could get hit by a car chasing deer. It's no fun to have an emergency quill removal either (done it twice in daylight hours). It's not really possible for me to train infront of these unusual circumstances since the conditions are impossible for me to create at will.
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Post by damasyn on Feb 11, 2012 20:24:52 GMT -5
Ouch Ingrid 3 times for lexi ..
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Post by ingridh on Feb 12, 2012 6:43:55 GMT -5
Ouch Ingrid 3 times for lexi .. Twice for Ladybug. Hans seems smarter- he's only gotten 1 quill in his nose. I'm glad my vet is so reasonable with her fees. It was only $100 last time for Ladybug with full anesthesia.
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Post by doberdelight on Feb 12, 2012 13:49:16 GMT -5
i dont like show collars but then again i dont like prong and chain either, however this is just my opinion and i guess they are fine if used correctly and effectively
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