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Post by georgie on Dec 31, 2011 10:05:07 GMT -5
but why would the american lined dobe breeders want to change anything.. their dogs are perfect...
*eye rolls*
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Post by von Cosack on Jan 1, 2012 16:38:32 GMT -5
Since 1970 I've evaluated easily a thousand Dobermanns for basic PP training and as the years went on the percentage of failure rose. At that time I still evaluated for K9 Commands and two of the biggest K9 security out fits on the east coast of the states. I've touched well over 3 thousand Dobermanns in my time for PP training alone and prior to the new show people beyond the Damysans and Ahrtals the character was flattened and the temperament was soften. I bred, showed, trained and worked with Dobermanns my entire life, I'm stating the demiss and I assure you turbok9 I worked more of this breed other than GSD then anyone I know since 1965. Their very different in attitude and they've changed 3 different times in body types. All for the worse, sadly! Von
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Post by turbok9 on Jan 1, 2012 20:30:59 GMT -5
Since 1970 I've evaluated easily a thousand Dobermanns for basic PP training and as the years went on the percentage of failure rose. At that time I still evaluated for K9 Commands and two of the biggest K9 security out fits on the east coast of the states. I've touched well over 3 thousand Dobermanns in my time for PP training alone and prior to the new show people beyond the Damysans and Ahrtals the character was flattened and the temperament was soften. I bred, showed, trained and worked with Dobermanns my entire life, I'm stating the demiss and I assure you turbok9 I worked more of this breed other than GSD then anyone I know since 1965. Their very different in attitude and they've changed 3 different times in body types. All for the worse, sadly! Von Oh I'm not disagreeing with you Von... Surely there has been a decline. I'm simply saying that despite the decline, if one is willing to put in a bit of extra effort, many that otherwise may not be seen as capable actually are. IMHO the majority of trainers in the US are just as effed up as many of the breeding programs for working breeds. I have seen perfectly good dogs tossed aside because they didn't fit very specific (and limiting) expectations.
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Post by von Cosack on Jan 2, 2012 10:46:04 GMT -5
Theres always exceptions as to abilities. Another reason IS the lack of quality , knowledgable PP trainers. Theres no more schools to learn the techniques to match up with Methods for PP training. Now a days its a mix of Sch. decoy work and poor attack training, the videos I'm watching on utube are sad. All you see is a dog biting a sleeve, then the agitator releasing the sleeve and the dog trotting out. I see NO ob mixed into the exercise I see segments instead of a session I see time in time out with nothing going on between the hit and release. Theres so many lessons not being taught its ridiculous, anyone who could tease a dog to move forward and offer a sleeve can do the training I see. Its all defense and the dog doesn't even notice his handler at all, zero team training and the fight seems to stop before it begins. Its mostly BS, its sad to me that the old school which was much more involved with techniques and far more time involved has passed on along with the real Master Trainers who knew how to institute the Military structure for strong OB leading into PP and then all the situational components that aren't even trained anymore. This was a beaten horse beginning in the early 80s between liabilty issues, the trainers that knew the metods were in the 60s then and retiring and the concept of PP dogs deminished. You could buy a gun and it would lasst a life time why spend 5 to 6 grand on a good pup and quality training that only lasted 8 to 10 years. That was the attitude then, I know because I started in this business as a pro in 1967 and the early 70s was the huge boom in it. PP dogs for 6 grand, Area dogs for 8 grand, I was importing GSD from Germany stocking K9 security companies along with state police K9 corps. I was very busy, I did pretty well too. The dogs were good the trainers were pros and out clients were willing to learn how to work their dogs and have them become family members. There were NO Crates EVER Used! HA! had to throw that in. breakfast time? yep. Von
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