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Post by daynieto on Nov 2, 2011 15:52:09 GMT -5
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Post by DeDe on Nov 2, 2011 16:09:10 GMT -5
Pic #3 is nice and straight for a line pic drawing!!! Pics #1 & 2 are a bit overreaching in the front, but not bad at all for a first attempt!
You're getting the hang of this REAL quick!!! :-) Nice job.
Oh, and Ninette is looking good too. :-)
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Post by cathynu on Nov 2, 2011 16:44:25 GMT -5
Oh, pretty puppy!!! Great you're starting her early, and its looking REALLY GOOD!!! They learn so much quicker at an early age!!! I was advised to use a mirror so I could see exactly what I was doing - especially when I got to the stage of lifting the neck up and getting the head to slope down ..... the other thing you might want to think of as she gets older are the "happy legs" .... I use bricks, and didn't start Lilly till she was 16 weeks old. That actually teaches the dog to stand stationary - I initially started her out completely square and moved the bricks back a little at a time every day till I had her stacked like I wanted her ... It works like a charm!!!
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Post by daynieto on Nov 3, 2011 19:15:30 GMT -5
Pic #3 is nice and straight for a line pic drawing!!! Pics #1 & 2 are a bit overreaching in the front, but not bad at all for a first attempt! You're getting the hang of this REAL quick!!! :-) Nice job. Oh, and Ninette is looking good too. :-) Thank you Dede , the first two pics were done the euro way , i know here in the States the stacking dingy is different ;D , i'm working on it even though i have no idea of how to make her head arch down once is up .  |
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Post by daynieto on Nov 3, 2011 19:18:51 GMT -5
Oh, pretty puppy!!! Great you're starting her early, and its looking REALLY GOOD!!! They learn so much quicker at an early age!!! I was advised to use a mirror so I could see exactly what I was doing - especially when I got to the stage of lifting the neck up and getting the head to slope down ..... the other thing you might want to think of as she gets older are the "happy legs" .... I use bricks, and didn't start Lilly till she was 16 weeks old. That actually teaches the dog to stand stationary - I initially started her out completely square and moved the bricks back a little at a time every day till I had her stacked like I wanted her ... It works like a charm!!! tell me about it !! i tried today the neck up and arch down thing , no luck !   |
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Post by cathynu on Nov 3, 2011 21:23:35 GMT -5
Day, the easiest I've found is to have your dog on the leash and choke chain - the chain must be loose around the dogs neck and the leash hanging loose but in your left hand ..... Stand in front of your dog, tell her "watch me" while holding the piece of bait in your hand higher than your dog's head so she has to look up at the bait, then drop your hand with the bait down to below her muzzle .... then tell her watch the bait/treat or whatever you refer to that as and she'll automatically drop her head in that slope if you get the bait just at the right hight ... don't hold the bait too close to her mouth because otherwise she's automatically gonna want to grab it .... teach her to "leave it" and soon you'll have her sloping the head and showing her beautiful long neck, but also free baiting for you at the same time .... these are all the little tricks I've been taught at the Handlers classes I attend ....
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Post by daynieto on Nov 3, 2011 21:49:29 GMT -5
Thank you Cathy , i'll try that tomorrow  |
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Post by cathynu on Nov 4, 2011 12:43:38 GMT -5
Oh, you're more than welcome!! Go have fun with your girl ... they learn VERY, VERY QUICKLY!!!  |
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Post by gemmasmomma on Nov 5, 2011 0:45:26 GMT -5
Day: you are doing superb for a complete novice... practice makes perfect... a mirror on the other side of you would help you see where her feet are in relation to her body. You just start out with a straight stand... just standing in place for a minute is practice.. getting her to stand and just stand there and not wiggle or move is the first accomplishment! Just repetition and practice and a good treat and some patience and repetition! SHe looks fabulous and has grown already! Her legs are so long! How is peggy sue taking to her? Ninette es muy bonita perrita! Tu es muy linda chica tambien!! |
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Post by von Cosack on Nov 5, 2011 12:11:20 GMT -5
Reminder! There are two basic techniques utilzed for showing. The American style is to place the dog more errect as opposed to the Euro style of leaning forward. Also the head levels are different the American style is to bring the head up high over the shoulder then point the nose downward. The Euro dog is again brought forward with the nose pointing ahead. Many times the Euro dogs is stretched out to the point that the rear feet pinch inward as opposed to the American dogs rear pastern being vertical.
The biggest differences between the two exhibition styles is also the Euro dogs are moved out faster and they try to expose reach and drive and the American dogs are trying to show a more gracefull movement, up on their toes. Consider that the common denominator is that the champion show dogs change their look every ten to fifteen years so following the ring examples isn't exactly a good blueprint. In fact its a bad one!! The Dobermann breed comes with a Standard and any breeder or judge who doesn't know it is doing the breed a huge injustice. Makes no difference if your a pet owner or a pro handler to the novice breeder if you don't study the Standard and apply it to your dog you simply are refusing to learn the correct way and ONLY way to evaluate the dogs.
The puppy looks very nice, don't go that far out forward so you can keep her rear legs (pastern) veticle so you show her rear correctly. I think if both the American an Euro handlers would show the neck and head using both positionings we can see MORE of the neck top shoulder and head plains and simply have more to visualize. The puppy is short in body and shows balance to her height and length. Head plains aren't shown very well her head is tilted to much and to evaluate a head even in a photo I need a front view too. But she looks good. The third pic shows plains and they are ok, the ear set looks low but again pics are decieving. Neck is good looks dry and a nice length. Front assemply looks good and other than puppy knuckles sticking out her feet and pasterns look correct. Her tuck up is good and the croup and tail set are good too. The third pic shows her a bit shy of angulation in the rear but the other photos show a decent thigh and again I'd like a rear view her rear from a rear pic. Same with the front angulation but again theres a distinct difference as to whats allowed in the shoulder and although its not written the rear angulation is also percieved differently, and always has been. (My personal opinion is that the American Standard is more suited to reach and drive allowing a 45d shoulder instead of a 50d) She has nice color and looks to be marked nice also. I hope you post pics and I commend you for exhibiting your pup, many owners get to nutz and bias as if they think their pup is perfect or if the top line isn't the greatest then the pup is inferior. I've been looking at Dobermann pups for 54 years and learned the Standard by the time I was 12 and I've seen a few pups in my time and I've seen some outstanding ones I've never seen a perfect pup in conformation. I couldn't and wouldn't like a pup any more or less over looks even when I showed. When you reach perfection I guess your done, which makes me think that perfection in many things would be boring.
Imagine if dogs viewed people the way we view them, that might hurt alot of feelings, ya think!! Von
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Post by daynieto on Nov 6, 2011 17:18:03 GMT -5
Day: you are doing superb for a complete novice... practice makes perfect... a mirror on the other side of you would help you see where her feet are in relation to her body. You just start out with a straight stand... just standing in place for a minute is practice.. getting her to stand and just stand there and not wiggle or move is the first accomplishment! Just repetition and practice and a good treat and some patience and repetition! SHe looks fabulous and has grown already! Her legs are so long! How is peggy sue taking to her? Ninette es muy bonita perrita! Tu es muy linda chica tambien!! Peggy Sue is very gentle with her , she just wants to lick her ears , which i don't allow , sometimes jumping over her while playing etc.. but she shares her bed which is great . Tu español es muy bueno , Gracias |
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Post by cathynu on Nov 6, 2011 20:11:56 GMT -5
"Consider that the common denominator is that the champion show dogs change their look every ten to fifteen years so following the ring examples isn't exactly a good blueprint"
THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!! Von has finally answered a question I have been asking at my AKC Kennel club, and AKC shows and of Doberman Breeders for the past 10 or so months, and NO-ONE has either known or wanted to admit this!!!! I couldn't understand why Rex's grandfather Armin Pelingistamm who was a multiple European Ch, and then got brought to America by the Calamia's and AKC Ch here in the late 90's would be put up by the judges, however Rex who is almost a mirror image of him, hasn't even been single pointed in the 9 AKC shows I've had him in, and I've also been advised by a dobe guy in our club that he seriously doubts Rex will EVER be put up for points in AKC .... I put him in UKC in 8 shows and managed to get a Ch on him in the first 3. I've said to my husband I'm going to test the waters with my Euro bitch and see what response I get from the AKC crowd with her, and I have the same response in 9 shows, I'm going to drop the AKC completely where showing is concerned and concentrate with her in UKC and IABCA and see how far I can get with her in those leagues!!!
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Post by DeDe on Nov 7, 2011 7:36:38 GMT -5
I used to attempt to show in AKC with our first 'euro' bitch. Got rave reviews and she always placed high till she was old enough for the Open class. This is when the bottom fell out. She was too 'different' or too 'doggy'. Basically, she was obviously not American. But the judges would ALWAYS call me over after putting up the gazelle looking dogs and compliment me on how well defined and muscled she was and how more breeders should strive for that look that was now missing.
It became apparent to me that they were not in fact judging the individual dogs to their respective standards. Hence my move to UKC.
Good luck, Day! I sincerely hope you will go far with your little girl and achieve all your dreams with her. :-)
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Post by von Cosack on Nov 7, 2011 10:49:17 GMT -5
No different than a nice akc dog trying to campaign in Europe, its not happening. The breeders change, the judging changes, the dogs change BUT the Standard remains. It goes to show that the breeders don't care about the Standard its as simple as that. Their ignorance and egos has molded a dog that has many faults and we're not even getting into to Temperament.
Theres a thread I started about Temperament and Evaluating character this is the number one reason for the dogs character to be deminished to the point that cowardest exsist. The breeders are so missinformed about character that they believe the dog needs to be a hard ass to be a brave dog that will except training without fault. The breed has been deluded to fit the masses, thats what ruined the breed. The Dobermann shouldn't be for a novice owner they should be for an experienced dog owner who starts out knowing that a working breed needs to be in training to be a happy healthy dog. Their not supposed to be PETS, now that they are the breed is washed out in Conformation and Temperament. Too many of the wrong people breeding and far to many of the wrong people owning. Von
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Post by daynieto on Nov 8, 2011 10:31:36 GMT -5
Very interesting info ! |
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