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Post by trinitydobes on Sept 2, 2011 15:06:53 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why proof of vaccinations OR results of Titer testing aren't both recognized!! Maybe as more and more people choose to use the titer testing things will change. From my understanding, it is simply because there hasn't been a meeting of the minds to determine what level is too low across the boad which shows when they should be re-vaccinated. Titer tests are done and it is the individual vet that determines whether the test results state aye or nay. Actually ladies the more I read - I am going to quit titering as my recent research has discoverd that Titer Levels DO NOT = level or strength of immunity to the disease - Titers measure the levels of antibodies - but that does not really measure level of immunity - so I am not going to do Titers any more. Today - we have no test available, nor any way to accurately measure the strength or robustness of the level of immunity in our pets. The titer test does measure as I said antibody levels - but there is no agreement as to how much antibodies is enough. this fact really sucks big time - because the only way you are going to know that your dogs immunity to the disease is not enough, is when he gets sick. |
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Post by breesmom on Sept 2, 2011 16:34:48 GMT -5
From my understanding, it is simply because there hasn't been a meeting of the minds to determine what level is too low across the boad which shows when they should be re-vaccinated. Titer tests are done and it is the individual vet that determines whether the test results state aye or nay. Actually ladies the more I read - I am going to quit titering as my recent research has discoverd that Titer Levels DO NOT = level or strength of immunity to the disease - Titers measure the levels of antibodies - but that does not really measure level of immunity - so I am not going to do Titers any more. Today - we have no test available, nor any way to accurately measure the strength or robustness of the level of immunity in our pets. The titer test does measure as I said antibody levels - but there is no agreement as to how much antibodies is enough. this fact really sucks big time - because the only way you are going to know that your dogs immunity to the disease is not enough, is when he gets sick. So Gail if you are no longer going to do titers anymore are you going to give the vacs and boosters every year for the dogs entire life? |
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Post by trinitydobes on Sept 2, 2011 19:39:44 GMT -5
Nope Sharon - I am not going to vaccinate every year - but there is no sense continuing to do titer tests that measure antibody levels and those levels do not really correlate to level of immunity.
I have to try and make time to do a hell of a lot of reading on all the links that Diva has provided and I am going to try and joing the group that does Natural Rearing - raising pups vaccine free.
For now I am going to stick to my same protocol - I am just not going to waste any more money on titers
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 4, 2011 23:41:26 GMT -5
Dee: I have never been to a show where any form of 'vaccination' record was required.
I have also 'titled' dogs and finished Gemma already. NO vaccination record was required. She was at the dog park, she has been to obedience classes, schutzhund training, private obedience lessons, UKC shows and IABCA shows (finished in both) and never once was I required to prove or even demonstrate that she was vaccinated... is this because I only went locally?
Do you show and fly? a vaccination record of puppy shots is ALL that the CDC requires for shipping a dog anywhere. I have shipped and had puppies shipped to me from Poland and Russia and I had shots up to 10 weeks on both of them and that was ALL that was required.
I am just wondering what or where you are going that you are required to show some kind of vaccination record that would preclude you if you did not have it from a title?
Rabies vaccines are required by law in some states but only if you feel your dog is going to get out and be caught by a animal control officer.
I live in an area that requires Rabies shots, but since my dogs never were ever going to be picked up by an animal control officer I never gave them rabies shots beyond the 2 nd year. I had the tag... and it was a 3 year tag, but I never ever needed it.
So what am I missing here? Really just very curious what you are doing and where that requires any documentation at all let alone proof of a rabies ?
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Post by DeDe on Sept 5, 2011 7:03:40 GMT -5
IF you choose to read your entry forms closely for AKC and UKC shows, you will find that the majority of them REQUIRE that your dogs be fully immunized. Just because YOU haven't been checked yet, does NOT mean they don't do it. IF you fly within the US or outside of the US with a dog, you MUST have current vaccs for the Health Cert. Rabies is required here, by law, and the A/C makes ROUTINE visits to verify tags.
So, just because YOU can get away with it, does not mean that the majority of the US can.
I am required to follow ALL of the laws, or face loosing my beloved dogs.
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Post by Kia on Sept 5, 2011 13:09:56 GMT -5
I think if you go to shows it behooves you to get the proper vaccinations. I just don't think I would risk my dog catching something. When I did go to shows regularly, especially outdoor ones, when I got back home I would remove my shoes at the door and put them in the washer with Clorox and hot water and let them soak for a day or two.
The dogs THERE may not be sick or look sick but what's to say they didn't pick up something at the rest area they (meaning the dog and the owner who could of walked in stray dog poop or anything) stopped at on the way to the show and now they are spreading it all over the ground?
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Post by Nellie on Sept 5, 2011 13:25:50 GMT -5
There is an annual event here in Orlando that is the 'Dog Obedience Clubs Of Florida' (DOCOF) All of the AKC clubs in the state send teams to compete in a one day event of Novice, Open and Utility. This year there were 325 dog entered, which is down slightly from last year. There are 7 rings in one huge room, all going at one time. Anyway, last year many dogs became ill after the event with a strain of Kennel Cough.
Now while Kennel Cough isn't normally deadly, it is costly and could have just as easily been something worse.
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 5, 2011 16:04:41 GMT -5
Dee: they are requiring you to do something that is NOW PROVEN and DOCUMENTED to be deterimental to your dogs. I thought that we are americans had the right to determine our own fate and or the fate of our four legged family members. If you were willing to do something to your dogs that is now PROVEN TO BE HAZARDOUS to their health, based on this information I have posted and this information is now being TAUGHT AT ALL 27 Veterinary Colleges in country and the protocols are being amended as we speak, why would you keep doing it?
Your adherence to the "letter of the law" as it where regarding "titling your dogs", is going to something down the road that you regret with a pretty serious impact. You are damaging them and destroying their health not promoting it and or helping it and this is what this evidence has now proven and is subsequently being changed as a protocol.
You and everyone else who loves their dogs has a responsibility to not IGNORE the changes in medical 'knowledge" and "protocols", out of some misguided 'sense of honor' at obeying 'rules' that were implemented BEFORE these changes in knowledge came about.
So now I am telling you that you do not have to adhere to those 'archaic deterimental rules" because of some misguided feeling or obeisance to rules... because my dogs are titled and I did not adhere to those rules and knowing what I know now, I am damn happy I did not adhere to them!
Just sayin.. you might want to read this information provided in all of these links, alot more thoroughly and pay alot closer attention to what is being said... I know you will appreciate it greatly when and if you do.
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Post by DeDe on Sept 5, 2011 16:46:23 GMT -5
I never said I didn't read the info. I never said I LIKED giving the vaccines. I said that it was a requirement of me to do what I love with my dogs.
As soon as the legalities catches up with the current research, I will be able to change my practices. Until that time, if I (and every other responsible breeder) chose not to follow our local laws, then GOOD dobermanns would cease to be as available as they are today. You think today's prices for a good dobermann are bad? HA!
I do not breed locally as I do not like the local stock. Therefore, I must travel if I wish to breed. Until the airlines and the Federal Government allow me to fly with or ship my dogs in what I consider to be good health, I must follow their rules. Or, quit breeding. I'm not ready to quit just yet, so, for now will have to play by their rules.
One day.........
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 5, 2011 21:07:47 GMT -5
Dee: we are on the same page here.. but the difference is my dogs are only vaccinated as puppies and not beyond and never will be and yet I am able to title them. That is CURRENT vaccinations status. They are CURRENT In their vaccines.. there is NO RULE that says they MUST BE VACCINATED x number of times... anywhere. There is no form that you must fill out when you enter your dog in a competition that requires you to give the latest vaccination information to be verfied and scrutinized, hence I AM in compliance with "their rules"... Now that you KNOW that your dogs are being over vaccinated if you vaccinate them beyond one year of age for anything, you can know determine if you are going to follow the letter of the law/rules (which by the way are not laws, they are guidelines and if you for any reason disagree with those guidelines you are not obligated to accept them, but you are free to show your dogs) Laws by state require RABIES vaccination every 3-5 years and nothing more. States do not require you to vaccinate for infectious diseases like parvo or distemper. We vaccinate voluntarily and we are trusting antiquated 'guidelines' of that voluntary compliance. The latest news in the world of vaccinations is here: www.naturalrearing.com/coda/n_new_vaccination_protocol.htmltake that to your vet and your local 'club' to educate those who also do not know it and keep on over vaccinating their dogs to their own harm... what is wrong with changing the rules so that our dogs are healthier and not being injected with toxins that are NOT PREVENTING anything once the immunity is in place? What is wrong with standing up for the most recent info regarding what is best for our dogs? Why would anyone not want to be ahead of the learning curve and not behind it? I do not understand why you would voluntarily vaccinate when you do not have too, unless you are flying every dog you have over seas all the time? I know many people who take their animals all around the USA and by law they are not required to have any proof of vaccinations that is not required in the USA:but travelling abroad requires that a dog have a rabies shot within 30 days to 1 year before the travel. and a current health certificate from your vet that validates that your pets are current ( defined by nothing more than the term current) in their vaccinations. the term "Current" IS defined as a dog that has current immunity to disease, period. so I am not curious why you are emphasizing that you are complying here and it seems that you are reading far more into this than what is 'required' and holding a 'hard line' that you are 'under the gun' as it where to prove that your dogs are regularly vaccinated whenever you go anywhere to show them? showing them in the USA or abroad? do you feel you are honor bound or under some kind of compulsion to read more into those guidelines than is required? ?  Or are you simply referring to the sales of puppies abroad and the importation of puppies from abroad and the basic puppy shots that are required to be given? you are not referring to vaccinations annually of all of your adult dogs no matter what? Just curious.. because this venue is a forum and often stuff is misinterpreted because of lack of tone and inflection!  |
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Post by Kia on Sept 5, 2011 21:54:53 GMT -5
I'm in no way answering for DeDe (because I'm sure she can do that on her own lol) but...
It is assumed by all people that read the forms that say "current on vaccinations" that "current" means within an allotted amount of time as to where the vaccination will still be given said animal protection against the disease vaccinated for.
As I stated my Nala hasn't had a vaccination (except rabies) in almost over an year and I am not disillusioned enough to think that means she is CURRENT on her vaccines. lol And if she were in close proximity to strange dogs on a regular basis i.e. at shows every weekend or the like I would get her vaccination UTD BEFORE going to these events.
Working at the human society and vet office I've seen puppies AND adults die from parvo. Even in my own personal experience I've had puppies get sick with parvo and several died. This was when I was 13 years old and had a mutt litter. The pups contracted parvo at 5 weeks and I was damn lucky to save three of the 5. Have you ever cared for a parvo puppy? Have you ever watched the life drain from that animal with every episode of bloody diarrhea or projectile vomiting until they are so weak they just lay in their own waste unable to move? Have you ever had the task of cleaning up that sweet yet disgustingly sulfur smelling waste? Once you've smelled parvo you NEVER forget it and you never want to see it again!
And because I HAVE had parvovirus on this property, even though it was OVER 18 years ago, I will continue to vaccinated all puppies against parvo that are here, born here or come here after the fact.
I also will continue vaccinating for canine distemper, adenovirus type 1 (hepatitis), adenovirus type 2 (kennel cough), and parainfluenza at 6, 8, 10, and 12 weeks of age. Call me paranoid or call me cautious what you won't call me is the owner or breeder of puppies that catch some disease the first time they are placed on the grass at a dog park or in the front yard.
/rant/
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Post by gemmasmomma on Sept 5, 2011 23:11:34 GMT -5
Kia: I have been breeding since 1980: dobermans, rotties, Neapolitan mastiffs and now dobermans again.
yes, in answer to your question I had rottie parvo puppy who was vaccinated in the standard protocol and she contracted parvo at about 4 months and I saved her with a natural regime at home.
I am NOT again NOT saying that ANYONE should abandon what makes you comfortable...
what I am saying is that the information in the Veterinary world now is making HUGE CHANGES in the protocols' and recommendations regarding these protocols because all that they thought they knew about 'vaccination' is now under fire as being erroneous, false and even deleterious, hazardous and down right deadly to our dogs.
If you do not want to accept that?
so be it...
all I did was share the info so that you too could evaluate it for yourselves and determine if you want to continue doing what you thought was the right thing, now that its been determined that over vaccinations (beyond one year of life) is killing our dogs... literally.
Immunization is LIFELONG once the dog is vaccinated at 8 then 12 then 16 weeks and the again at 1-1.5 years of age and Rabies vaccines last 5-7 years regardless of what the make claims.
Its the new protocol being taught and recommended by the Chief Veterinarians in the country and it is being suggested that you make your vet aware of it, if she/he is not already aware of it.
If your dogs were vaccinated at puppies and again at just around 1 year?
they have IMMUNITY FOR LIFE.... Just like we do....
do what you like with the info.... its out there for you to digest!
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Post by DeDe on Sept 6, 2011 7:14:13 GMT -5
Diva, trust me when I say that I do not vaccinate any more than I HAVE to. We have also lost a dog directly related to vaccinations. As soon as my dogs are done traveling &/or trialing, I do my best to never vaccinate them again. But, when I sign that entry form, I am certifying that my dogs are current on vaccines for the safety and security of all attending. Therefore, I must vaccinate as per the currently accepted protocol. I don't like it in the least, but, if ANYONE were to get checked and caught, it would be me.  I do stay abreast of the latest researches out there and I am in close contact with my vet on the latest and greatest 'natural' ideas for our dogs. I am also VERY close to the Veterinary college in Gainesville, FL. Personally I believe that once your young dog gets it's first booster and it's first 3 year rabies vaccine, it's set for life. Hopefully the rest of the vets and law makers will catch up to the newest research soon and more lives will be saved. Annual vaccines are just to put money in your vets pockets. As for heartworm preventative, that's a whole nother ballgame. I do treat monthly and will continue to do so based on my location. |
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Post by Shadowlands on Sept 6, 2011 10:10:37 GMT -5
Actually, I have been to a dog show that asked to see proof of current vaccinations only because that area had an outbreak of distemper I believe it was. So yes, any event that lists current on vaccinations CAN and DO ask for proof. And believe me, you can tell them your idea of current, but until it flies with the rest of the vets and clubs, you can be denied entry. Also, if you want to cross the U.S & Canadian border you need PROOF of vaccinations including rabies, and a letter of health. They don't always ask but they can. Period.
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I do stay abreast of the latest researches out there and I am in close contact with my vet on the latest and greatest 'natural' ideas for our dogs. I am also VERY close to the Veterinary college in Gainesville, FL.